Induction?

HeatherRG · 02-28-2017, 06:40 PM

I think that's the right term for starting ketosis... if I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

I tried a ketogenic diet in the early '90s. To the best of my memory, I was required to do a 3 day fast to induce ketosis. I am not fasting now, but following a strict keto diet. I plan to begin testing after day 3, but I don't want to be discouraged if I'm not in ketosis by then. Can anyone give me a (broad) idea of how long it takes for ketosis to begin while following a strict keto-diet?

enemysugar · 02-28-2017, 08:23 PM

It really depends on the person because everyone is different. My experience is 3 to 4 days that's just me, others may have a different experience. Good luck to you I hope you do well.

Leo41 · 03-01-2017, 02:23 AM

You don't have to 'fast' to get into ketosis. Limiting carbs to 20g or fewer will result in ketosis, but how long it takes depends on the individual.

HeatherRG · 03-01-2017, 05:29 AM

Thank you, guys. I know everyone is different, which is why I asked for a broad idea of what I might be able to expect. For example, if I'm not in ketosis consuming 20g of carbs or less within 7 days, is that unusual and need to take a closer look at my eating? I think I am doing a pretty good job so far, but since I'm trying not to become obsessed with every mg I'm putting into my body, I'm not specifically measuring anything other than when I prepare my food (i.e. a tablespoon of this, a cup of that). Since I'm cooking for 6 people, I am never 100% sure how much I ingest with each meal, although the recipes are strict low carb recipes and I'm relying on my gastric sleeve for portion control.

clackley · 03-01-2017, 05:37 AM

I wonder what type of testing you are planning on doing. Urine sticks are the most faulty for a number of reasons. So don't get discouraged if you get a negative - it may not reflect your actual state.

Most people seem to get into ketosis and know it from the way they feel. I think it takes around 3 to 4 days to start producing ketones.

HeatherRG · 03-01-2017, 05:50 AM

Hi Cathy!

I do plan to use the urine sticks intially since the blood/breath meters are fairly costly. Once I am completely convinced I won't fall back into old habits once my initial enthusiasm wears off (as it has in the past with other so-called diets) I will probably invest in something more advanced.

You say people judge by how they feel. Even though I tried a ketogenic diet in the past, it was over 20 years ago and I am hard pressed to remember any of what I felt. It was also medically supervised and they prescribed me phentermine to help control the hunger I initially felt. Consequently, my only real memory was being ramped up and jittery because of the medication. How would you describe the feeling of being in ketosis?

clackley · 03-01-2017, 06:02 AM

When I was transitioning to keto, I had some of the same effects that you describe in that I felt a bit jazzed up, dry mouth, peed a lot, mild headache and loss of appetite. It has been a long time so I am probably forgetting what else I felt. I do wish I had know about supplementing with salty chicken broth. It likely would have helped.

Long term keto means that I have a reduced appetite, lots of energy, no joint pain, bowels and other digestive problems have disappeared. Many other health benefits.

I think the message that eat when hungry and don't when not and keep a tight control on your carbs is the best advice for the withdrawal period. Think bacon!!!

HeatherRG · 03-01-2017, 08:45 AM

I did read about the chicken broth the other day and I am grateful! I used it the first day, but not yesterday. I had intended to, but just got busy and never really felt hungry until just before dinnertime. Sounds like I am doing things right, though. I ordered my keto sticks form Amazon rather than running out to the pharmacy and testing right away since I realized that would be pointless. They arrive tonight. Guess we'll see tomorrow morning where I stand.

HeatherRG · 03-01-2017, 02:36 PM

The keto sticks just arrived and of course I ran to the bathroom with one right away. (Brings back memories of the days when I was starting my family...) Anyway, I used one and it shows a small amount of ketones! I'm really happy about that. I know people have said they are not the most accurate way of testing. Does this work in both directions?

imoksoami · 03-01-2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherRG

I know people have said they are not the most accurate way of testing. Does this work in both directions?

What?? LOL.
I know people have not had luck with them but I tried them early on and they seemed to work fine.

Hayek · 03-01-2017, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherRG

I know people have said they are not the most accurate way of testing. Does this work in both directions?

If you have the time and really want to know why ketostix will not tell you much, read pages 164 and 165 of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Volek and Phinney. This is the section headed by Ketones: To Measure or Not.

If you do not have this book, read this summary:

Ketostix were designed to help diabetics avoid ketoacidosis which is a dangerous condition involving very high blood sugar and very high serum ketones. If you have near normal blood sugar and serum ketone levels consistent with nutritional ketosis, you don't need to worry about this.

Ketostix only measure excess levels of acetoacetate, which is not the type of ketones that correlate with nutritional ketosis.

The ketones that correlate with nutritional ketosis are known as beta-hydroxybutyrate. This type can be measured only with a blood ketone meter.

There is a built-in time lag. Ketostix are measuring what has happened in the past since it takes a while for the kidneys to produce urine.

Exercise can influence how many excess ketones are excreted.

You can be in nutritional ketosis even when Ketostix show no excess acetoacetate. In the keto-adapted state, very little acetoacetate ketones will be excreted in urine even though blood ketones may be high.

Note that it takes a period of four to six weeks of being in ketosis every day in order to become keto-adapted. Someone who is keto-adapted has adapted to using fat as the primary fuel for muscles and various organs. The keto-adapted brain uses ketones in place of glucose for most of its energy needs. When keto-adapted, most acetoacetate is not excreted. Instead, muscles convert it to beta-hydroxybutyrate and return it to the blood for use by the brain.

HeatherRG · 03-02-2017, 07:26 AM

Thank you, Hayek! That information makes things so much clearer. I guess I have another book to add to my growing list!

02-28-2017, 06:40 PM	#1
HeatherRG Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Gallery: HeatherRG	Induction? I think that's the right term for starting ketosis... if I'm wrong, someone please correct me. I tried a ketogenic diet in the early '90s. To the best of my memory, I was required to do a 3 day fast to induce ketosis. I am not fasting now, but following a strict keto diet. I plan to begin testing after day 3, but I don't want to be discouraged if I'm not in ketosis by then. Can anyone give me a (broad) idea of how long it takes for ketosis to begin while following a strict keto-diet?

03-01-2017, 05:37 AM	#5
clackley Chatty Cathy Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 14,147 Gallery: clackley WOE: N.K.=vlc/moderate protein/high fat Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009	I wonder what type of testing you are planning on doing. Urine sticks are the most faulty for a number of reasons. So don't get discouraged if you get a negative - it may not reflect your actual state. Most people seem to get into ketosis and know it from the way they feel. I think it takes around 3 to 4 days to start producing ketones. __________________ Cathy Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125 "The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia “Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy! "I resist insulin" Hyperlipid We are butter together!

03-01-2017, 06:02 AM	#7
clackley Chatty Cathy Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 14,147 Gallery: clackley WOE: N.K.=vlc/moderate protein/high fat Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009	When I was transitioning to keto, I had some of the same effects that you describe in that I felt a bit jazzed up, dry mouth, peed a lot, mild headache and loss of appetite. It has been a long time so I am probably forgetting what else I felt. I do wish I had know about supplementing with salty chicken broth. It likely would have helped. Long term keto means that I have a reduced appetite, lots of energy, no joint pain, bowels and other digestive problems have disappeared. Many other health benefits. I think the message that eat when hungry and don't when not and keep a tight control on your carbs is the best advice for the withdrawal period. Think bacon!!! __________________ Cathy Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125 "The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia “Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy! "I resist insulin" Hyperlipid We are butter together!

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02-28-2017, 08:23 PM	#2
enemysugar Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,287 Gallery: enemysugar Stats: 278/139/160 Goal Met 8/2017 WOE: Atkins 72 Start Date: January 25th 2017	It really depends on the person because everyone is different. My experience is 3 to 4 days that's just me, others may have a different experience. Good luck to you I hope you do well.

03-01-2017, 02:23 AM	#3
Leo41 Senior LCF member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,116 Gallery: Leo41 Stats: 340 then/145 now WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling	You don't have to 'fast' to get into ketosis. Limiting carbs to 20g or fewer will result in ketosis, but how long it takes depends on the individual.

03-01-2017, 05:29 AM	#4
HeatherRG Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Gallery: HeatherRG	Thank you, guys. I know everyone is different, which is why I asked for a broad idea of what I might be able to expect. For example, if I'm not in ketosis consuming 20g of carbs or less within 7 days, is that unusual and need to take a closer look at my eating? I think I am doing a pretty good job so far, but since I'm trying not to become obsessed with every mg I'm putting into my body, I'm not specifically measuring anything other than when I prepare my food (i.e. a tablespoon of this, a cup of that). Since I'm cooking for 6 people, I am never 100% sure how much I ingest with each meal, although the recipes are strict low carb recipes and I'm relying on my gastric sleeve for portion control.

03-01-2017, 05:50 AM	#6
HeatherRG Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Gallery: HeatherRG	Hi Cathy! I do plan to use the urine sticks intially since the blood/breath meters are fairly costly. Once I am completely convinced I won't fall back into old habits once my initial enthusiasm wears off (as it has in the past with other so-called diets) I will probably invest in something more advanced. You say people judge by how they feel. Even though I tried a ketogenic diet in the past, it was over 20 years ago and I am hard pressed to remember any of what I felt. It was also medically supervised and they prescribed me phentermine to help control the hunger I initially felt. Consequently, my only real memory was being ramped up and jittery because of the medication. How would you describe the feeling of being in ketosis?

03-01-2017, 08:45 AM	#8
HeatherRG Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Gallery: HeatherRG	I did read about the chicken broth the other day and I am grateful! I used it the first day, but not yesterday. I had intended to, but just got busy and never really felt hungry until just before dinnertime. Sounds like I am doing things right, though. I ordered my keto sticks form Amazon rather than running out to the pharmacy and testing right away since I realized that would be pointless. They arrive tonight. Guess we'll see tomorrow morning where I stand.

03-01-2017, 02:36 PM	#9
HeatherRG Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Gallery: HeatherRG	The keto sticks just arrived and of course I ran to the bathroom with one right away. (Brings back memories of the days when I was starting my family...) Anyway, I used one and it shows a small amount of ketones! I'm really happy about that. I know people have said they are not the most accurate way of testing. Does this work in both directions?

03-02-2017, 07:26 AM	#12
HeatherRG Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Gallery: HeatherRG	Thank you, Hayek! That information makes things so much clearer. I guess I have another book to add to my growing list!