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Old 09-03-2016, 03:18 PM   #31
bellbeth1943
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I grew up with a dad who was diabetic who used as. Did not seem to have any bearing on his health. But, the fact that he didn't stay on his diet did. (Back then, lc was the recommended diet) he lost toes, and his eyesight.
I plan to use whatever makes this plan easier to follow. Whole foods are good, but I love the fact that I no longer have to butcher, grow, can, or freeze everything to keep it from going bad within days of picking, killing, or making.
I usually stay away from the I'm eating better than you are types of discussions. When we finally left the farm, I loved having flush toilets, and stores where we could buy food that someone else had to prepare for us. I couldn't believe it when I found butter in a grocery store. Hallalooyah, the churn could be put away.LOL
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:57 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgwwilson View Post
Just in case you haven't seen this:

http://www.gilabs.com/main/enewslett...013-poster.pdf

A small human study comparing effects of glucose, Splenda and Erythritol on both BS and insulin levels.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

I would be interested to know if there were any differences in insulin response between the subjects. Did anyone have a strong bs or insulin response, or did everyone have a uniformly low response?
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:25 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellbeth1943 View Post
I grew up with a dad who was diabetic who used as. Did not seem to have any bearing on his health. But, the fact that he didn't stay on his diet did. (Back then, lc was the recommended diet) he lost toes, and his eyesight.
I plan to use whatever makes this plan easier to follow. Whole foods are good, but I love the fact that I no longer have to butcher, grow, can, or freeze everything to keep it from going bad within days of picking, killing, or making.
I usually stay away from the I'm eating better than you are types of discussions. When we finally left the farm, I loved having flush toilets, and stores where we could buy food that someone else had to prepare for us. I couldn't believe it when I found butter in a grocery store. Hallalooyah, the churn could be put away.LOL
Bellbeth, you bring an interesting perspective! My father grew up on a farm and I will say that he loved grocery shopping with my mother and for a time did all the shopping. I wonder if he had some of the same feelings.

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Very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

I would be interested to know if there were any differences in insulin response between the subjects. Did anyone have a strong bs or insulin response, or did everyone have a uniformly low response?
Now that would be telling. So weird that this key hormone seems to be ignored. Dr. Joseph Kraft is making waves these days with his research data in which he measured insulin and blood glucose on literally thousands of people and came to some conclusions that I think are undeniable. Logical. Scary.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:21 PM   #34
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Thank you Cgwwilson for posting that info. I hope it's correct. I've been giving up sweeteners (mostly for fasting) and I would love to have a BPC with sweetener now and again.

Yes, GME great question. I also wonder what qualifies as "healthy" participants and where they find them considering that I think more people are like in Dr. Kraft's studies and not as healthy as some doctors think.

I agree Cathy, why arent Dr. Kraft's conclusions more widely known? And believed?
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:34 PM   #35
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Thank you Cgwwilson for posting that info. I hope it's correct. I've been giving up sweeteners (mostly for fasting) and I would love to have a BPC with sweetener now and again.

I agree Cathy, why arent Dr. Kraft's conclusions more widely known? And believed?
You're more than welcome. And thanks to you, Cathy and Gina for the reference to Dr. Kraft's work. (Hadn't heard of him before, but just ordered his book on Kindle so I'm off to devour it . . .)
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:49 PM   #36
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This is very interesting to me because some of the "gurus" I normally trust, like Dr. Fung, seem to have almost a knee-jerk negative reaction to AS. The information he shared in The Obesity Code was incredibly well-cited, except the chapter where he condems artificial sweeteners.
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:34 AM   #37
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Some people are quite sensitive to it, my mum gets a major inflammation reaction from aspartame, and for some they contribute to sweet cravings.

However if it gives you no issues personally I don't see the problem... as you say there's no solid evidence it's harmful
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Old 09-16-2016, 07:53 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by GME View Post
Very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

I would be interested to know if there were any differences in insulin response between the subjects. Did anyone have a strong bs or insulin response, or did everyone have a uniformly low response?
The poster is very interesting but it would be good to have more details of the methods (i.e., did Splenda include a bulking agent?) The size of the vertical bars on the data points for Figure 3 indicate that there was little variability between subjects with Splenda or Swerve, whereas the larger bars on the sucrose data points indicate there were more differences among individuals in the reaction to sucrose.

The data show Mean=/-SEM which is the mean (not exactly teh same as the average, but for practical purposes the average) plus or minus the standard error of the mean, which gives you an idea of variability of the data, but the lines are not maximum and minimum lines, so there are possibly individual responses that are further outliers.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:01 PM   #39
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new study

in the conclusion

Quote:
In conclusion, acute ingestion of erythritol and xylitol stimulates gut hormone release and slows down gastric emptying, whereas there is no or only little effect on insulin release.
Here is a link to the study in part...

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/310/11/E1053

Hello gum - oh I have missed you so!!!!
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:45 PM   #40
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Thanks for posting this, Cathy.

I have felt that AS hasn't raised my insulin, but nice to see a study that confirms it.

I don't use much, mostly to sweeten whipping cream or make an occasional LC dessert. I drink black coffee, but am trying to drink mostly tea now, just a cup a day. I would love to drink my homemade mocha every day, but every day definitely stalls me.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:24 PM   #41
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I suspect that different people react differently to AS - just as with almost everything else, some will see more of an increase as others. I can't imagine believing whatever they suggest when they are saying we all react the same. Some are fine w/it, others are not. Doing an N=1 experiment with labs is the only way to really know.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:29 PM   #42
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There is currently no way to do lab results on insulin response to any particular artificial sweeteners. Would be awesome if it were true but not at this point in time.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:52 PM   #43
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Yes people will react differently and in different degrees in response to anything, including AS. I am just glad that it is being researched more which means hopefully we will be getting more and better tested information. Maybe all the research will lead us to a better solution for sweeteners.

The whole thing (IR and health) are very fascinating and mind opening for me.
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:23 PM   #44
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Yes, I don't think the extreme amount of studying that has been done on a. S. ever examined insulin response or some other possible reactions. Not to say they actually exist but clarification is always good.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:25 PM   #45
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There is currently no way to do lab results on insulin response to any particular artificial sweeteners. Would be awesome if it were true but not at this point in time.
Consume AS regularly for a period of time, test (fasted insulin). Stop all AS for same period of time keeping everything else the same. Test again. Imperfect but, in theory, better than nothing.

Most people will only care about the scale and/or how they feel and, for most, that will be enough.

I wish someone would come up with a home fasted insulin test. That is something that would be useful.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:32 PM   #46
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I too wish there was a home testing for insulin. Maybe this will be something down the road. However, testing fasting insulin in the way you suggest does not seem useful as it is a fasted test - meaning that there is no dietary input.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Last edited by clackley; 10-18-2016 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:41 PM   #47
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But if insulin is increased a lot by it the fasting (normal amount for lab test) level will be higher with AS in the diet than without it. Being fasted does not mean one's insulin will be normal.
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:04 AM   #48
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A fasting insulin level that is beyond the norm would only indicate that a person is insulin resistant and therefore producing to much insulin all the time but not necessarily a 'reaction' to a particular food. It would react over a period of time to a variety of different macros being consumed.

There is a glucose challenge test used to test insulin in which the fasted insulin is measured and then 75 - 100 grams of glucose is administered and insulin is checked in periods of 1 -2 hours there after over 5 hours. This might be something that could be done in humans using a specific a.s. but it is currently not being done.

Having said this, I am sure a person with a glucose monitor can check for an increase in glucose after the consumption of a particular a.s. but it would not translate to insulin as they are not directly related. It does not tell how much insulin is being produced.
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:07 AM   #49
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If one's glucose is consistently going down and then leveling out at a healthy leve;, wouldn't you assume insulin is decreasing also? Isn't this the reason for fasting and low carb foods? Now I'm getting confused. lol
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:18 AM   #50
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Jan, I would make that assumption but you are talking about an eating style over a period of time rather than a single ingredient in that eating style that is not yet proven to give an insulin increase.

I would absolutely make the correlation that eating low carb and/or fasting will lower insulin. If you have blood sugar control issues, and can see that your glucose is coming down, it is reasonable that your insulin may be coming down too.

Many people here do not measure glucose because we don't have b.s. control issues. Even if I did test blood glucose, I would still not know what was happening with insulin because this would be hidden. My body could be pumping out large amounts of insulin in order to control the b.s.. It would not be evident on a b.s. measure.

If you really want an interesting look at this relationship, Dr. Joseph Kraft (who is about 93 at this point) has a very large study of about 12000 people whom he was measuring insulin and could accurately predict type 2 long before blood sugar was the indicator. Insulin is the driver!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:59 AM   #51
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Okay good. I forgot that this thread was mostly about a.s. and its effect on insulin levels. Not about long range eating style.

Thanks, Cathy!
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:34 PM   #52
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I have found info that stevia is good for insulin levels - but only when consumed with food. Alone - as in fasting/zero calories - it does not offer the same benefits.
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:34 PM   #53
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How do you know that?
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:08 PM   #54
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It was part of the info I read a while back. I had read so much about stevia being good that I did more research when Dr. Fung said not to use stevia during fasting. It took a while but I finally found info on why it is not good alone.

This is just from memory so very imperfect... Stevia helps our bodies use insulin better - when insulin is released during a meal. But when there is no food insulin has nowhere to go - nothing to do, stays in blood.

Stevia also helps lower (significantly) postprandial blood glucose, according to some studies. Since it helps both insulin & BG, it seems like the best sweetener for anyone with diabetes. Unless the person is fasting! lol

But I have not been able to locate an insulin index listing for stevia or any sweeteners. I've found them for meals and coffee with stevia & cream. Based on that, there may be insulin released when consuming stevia but it appears to be a tiny one.
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:16 PM   #55
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Most of the time sweeteners are consumed with other things that have calories. It is really the insulin impact of the whole food/drink that matters rather than the individual sweetener. It is not just our sweeteners but how we use them.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:08 AM   #56
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I would only comment to say, where is the data? People say all kinds of things but what I am looking for is reliable science that confirms one thing or another. The post I made above links to a scientific study conclusion that examined the effects of 2 sugar alcohols that appear to not raise insulin.

I am really hoping that Gary Taubes addresses a.s. in his soon to be released book.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:12 PM   #57
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I do way too much research to keep links to share. Sorry.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:43 PM   #58
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No problem. I have yet see reliable research. I don't believe it exists at this point in time.
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"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:03 PM   #59
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I confess I did not pay much attention to the artificial sweeteners since I just use stevia. The info I looked for and referred to has to do with stevia only & it some time to dig it up. There is not much info on sweeteners in the absence of calories.
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Mighty Warrior, King of the fight, no matter what I face You're by my side.
When You don't move the mountains I'm needing You to move,
When You don't part the waters I wish I could walk through,
When You don't give the answers as I cry out to You,
I will trust, I will trust, I will trust in You.
~ Lauren Daigle - Trust in You
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:03 AM   #60
clackley
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
I have recently been hearing that aspartame is actually a preferred choice of sweetener because it does not raise blood glucose or insulin. This is coming from Dr. Nally. I have never seen aspartame sold as a stand alone....
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Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
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