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Old 08-18-2016, 01:10 PM   #391
cgwwilson
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Thank you for this. All great suggestions.

I have not tried drinking tea but might today. I have not been consuming broth much either. It seems broth really does break the kind of fast I am trying for with the amount of protein it contains. I only consume it before actually breaking fast when struggling. I think tea would be better.

Cathy,

Have you ever tried making a version of "butter tea"? Tibetion Yak Butter Tea was supposedly the inspiration for Bullet Proof Coffee. (Yak butter tea is probably a bit much for most westerners - besides, where would we get fresh Yak butter??)

I've started making a version with Yogi Chai Tea bags, sea salt and 1 tablespoon of butter. I find it very satisfying, a nice change from coffee with heavy cream and a pleasant alternative way to get added salt on fasting days. I haven't bothered blending it, but blending would, of course, make it into a creamier, frothier drink. . .

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Old 08-18-2016, 04:52 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I was listening to another podcast. This one is 'two keto dudes' and they were talking about the crazy censuring that has been going on in Australia with a particular doctor who recommends LCHF for his patients. Interesting but the most fascinating part is a chat about a Dr. Kraft who is a pioneer in the understanding of insulin and it's role in diabetes and how testing blood sugars is really a late indicator of ensuing disease. He says maybe as long as 20 yrs. late.

His work is about measuring insulin over a period of about 5 hours. His charts depict 4 different pattern and 3 of them tell the story of hidden diabetes. The other thing I think is interesting in his charts is that he actually demonstrates insulin resistance as 3 of the patterns, start with higher fasting insulin numbers.

I want a fasting insulin test! What I heard was that if you are keto, you would consume 75g of glucose 2 hours before the blood draw and if that result is around 30 or less, you are in pattern 1 - the best place to be. Need to wrangle a blood test from my doctor who is currently doing less and less in the way of blood work. I need a rational excuse to call it in and get a requisition......
Thank you so much for this info Cathy. I didn't feel up to listening to a 74 minute podcast, so I searched the info out and found the Fat Emperor's blog post on the subject.

http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/20...nt-of-diabetes

What I find extremely interesting is that the Type V group showed Type 1 diabetes or someone on a low carb diet.

I didn't see anything about drinking 75g glucose 2 hrs. before? Gosh, I hope that's not the case.
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Old 08-18-2016, 06:19 PM   #393
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Yes, I misstated that there are 4 patterns. 5 is the number and the fifth is a low insulin response which would be the case with type 1 or type 2 that is not producing much insulin. Also a ketogenic person. That being the case due to down regulation of insulin due to diet.

So the Kraft protocol is an insulin measurement in hours after ingesting 75g of glucose and the resulting insulin response to measure which group a person might fit into. The notion that a fasting insulin blood test 2 hours after consuming 75g of glucose might give a good idea of which group a person might fall into. Of course it is not a fasting test.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:11 PM   #394
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Did you guys see the post by bloodsugar 101 on facebook today? Apparently, sitting in a hot tub significantly reduces blood sugar more than cycling, 10% more than cycling for an hour and increases energy expenditure by 80% burning 126 calories per hour, which is equivalent to a 25-30 minute walk (Dr Faulkner, Post-Doctoral Research Associate for the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) Leicester-Loughborough Diet, Lifestyle and Physical Activity Biomedical Research Unit (BRU)).

Google Hot Bath Beats Cycling for Lowering Blood Sugar.

I am very confused by this. I have seen the tanning salon posters claiming some kind of calorie burning with this heat wrap apparatus. I assumed it was a scam that caused sweating that people think is weight loss.

Can heating yourself up burn calories? This is really strange. I thought it would take the pressure off your body to keep your temperature up so you wouldn't have to work so hard to maintain 98.6 degrees.
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Old 08-20-2016, 07:20 AM   #395
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This fasting thing is amaze-balls!
Down 4.8 lbs this week!!
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Old 08-20-2016, 08:50 AM   #396
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Hi all,
back from a week staycation - I did fast every day but I also indulged. All in all, I feel pretty good and not nearly as bloated as I would if I had not fasted and I also tried to eat moderate carbs and had some control. Had my share of champagne too.

Starting back today to do OMAD and 20 carbs, works best for me. I plan on another 30 days with maybe one interruption Labor Day weekend.

Glad to be back at it!
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Old 08-20-2016, 08:50 AM   #397
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This fasting thing is amaze-balls!
Down 4.8 lbs this week!!
Wow! Great progress!!!
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Old 08-21-2016, 06:22 PM   #398
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How does it feel going to bed without eating? I do 24 hours twice a week and I cant imagine going to bed without breaking the fast.
Do you sleep well?
It depends. I have been very hungry on some nights, but I just choose to roll over and persevere. I quit drinking caffeine about 6 weeks ago because I was feeling very tired. Gradually my sleeping is falling back into place, even on nights I fast. I was waking up and not being able to go back to sleep but that seems to have passed. Usually when I wake up in the mornings I'm less hungry than when I went to sleep. I like that because it keeps my eating more normal for me.

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Wow, 20 36's!!!! That is amazing.

Thanks JayLynn. I'm on 22 today I just really believe this is a great way to get healthy and stay healthy, so I'm kind of committed!



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I'm doing further research on the whey protein issue now. Apparently, a whey protein shake can stop fat burning in its tracks. It has a bigger impact on insulin levels than pure glucose.

See, people think they are doing something good for themselves by switching to artificial sweeteners and drinking whey shakes.

Turns out, not so much.

I'm glad I've learned these things. After all, why am I fasting? To lower insulin levels.
Susan, ditto, ditto, ditto. I was drinking a pricey whey protein earlier in the year to help gain muscle. I have stopped that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKittyMt View Post
This fasting thing is amaze-balls!
Down 4.8 lbs this week!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Renee View Post

Starting back today to do OMAD and 20 carbs, works best for me. I plan on another 30 days with maybe one interruption Labor Day weekend.

Glad to be back at it!
Stevie Renee, it's starting to feel weird if I don't fast!

So fasting today ... getting ready to take a hot bath w/epsom salts. I've been doing that once or twice a week for years. Who wrote about that? I had no idea they help with lowering blood sugar. My FBG was the best it's ever been in Seattle, but it wasn't perfect Progress ... progress ... progress ...

Have a great week everyone!
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:07 AM   #399
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It was Ketones that brought my attention to epsom salts. Magnesium from the salts are absorbed through the skin. I have yet to try it!
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Old 08-22-2016, 06:03 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by susan46 View Post
I'm doing further research on the whey protein issue now. Apparently, a whey protein shake can stop fat burning in its tracks. It has a bigger impact on insulin levels than pure glucose.

See, people think they are doing something good for themselves by switching to artificial sweeteners and drinking whey shakes.

Turns out, not so much.

I'm glad I've learned these things. After all, why am I fasting? To lower insulin levels.
Susan
Can you tell me where you read info regarding the whey protein raising insulin levels? Thanks
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Old 08-22-2016, 06:37 AM   #401
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Sorry if I am butting in where not needed. Whey protein is known to be insulinogenic and I don't believe there is anything controversial about that. Here is a link to a study that demonstrates this in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3471010/
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 08-22-2016, 07:45 AM   #402
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Susan
Can you tell me where you read info regarding the whey protein raising insulin levels? Thanks

Hi Jeanie,

Whey protein, and milk products in general have been well documented to cause an insulin spike, and yet even Fung refers to research that indicates whole milk products help in losing/maintaining weight.

Here's a quote from Marks Daily Apple that addresses whey protein and insulin release:

"Whey protein insulin spikes are also followed by a big glucagon spike - insulin's anti-hormone - so it's a much different reaction than eating a bowl of pasta. I doubt it'll raise your blood sugar much, even if it does spike your insulin. Remember, the insulin from whey isn't storing sugar as fat, it's storing animo acids in your muscle for growth and repair."

Ultimately, like everything else, we all have to figure out what does and does not work for our own individual metabolisms. . .

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Old 08-22-2016, 08:22 AM   #403
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Hi Jeanie,

Whey protein, and milk products in general have been well documented to cause an insulin spike, and yet even Fung refers to research that indicates whole milk products help in losing/maintaining weight.

Here's a quote from Marks Daily Apple that addresses whey protein and insulin release:

"Whey protein insulin spikes are also followed by a big glucagon spike - insulin's anti-hormone - so it's a much different reaction than eating a bowl of pasta. I doubt it'll raise your blood sugar much, even if it does spike your insulin. Remember, the insulin from whey isn't storing sugar as fat, it's storing animo acids in your muscle for growth and repair."

Ultimately, like everything else, we all have to figure out what does and does not work for our own individual metabolisms. . .

*****

Carolyn
This is the thing that makes me think I wouldn't purposefully consume whey protein often. As for milk products, I think the context of what Fung is saying is whole dairy as opposed to low fat dairy. I don't believe he is saying milk per say - even whole milk.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:53 PM   #404
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Fung very much discourages the use of whey powder - but generally under his general disapproval of processed foods (and whey is absolutely a processed food).

The fact that it's also a non-fat dairy product probably contributes to it's insulin spiking properties - hmm, wonder how it compares to skim milk??
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:32 PM   #405
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Copied from Dr. Fung's response on Diet Doctor to a question regarding Whey powder:

"I advise against using whey powder for the main reason that it is a highly processed chemical, not a real food. Whey stimulates insulin highly, but also is very satiating, so effect on weight likely closer to neutral."
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Old 08-22-2016, 07:04 PM   #406
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Personal experience with whey protein - mixed with ice, water and Hwy means I will be hungry within a couple of hours.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:18 PM   #407
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RE: magnesium with Epsom salt - yes!! This is good for you. I read the chocolate cravings could be magnesium deficiency related. We apparently are all at risk because there is less in the soil than there used to be because of farming and people eat more processed food these days.

I found another use for this - I have yellowing rhododendrons planted between a giant concrete porch and a mason wall. I didn't know this causes mineral deficiency. I read to sprinkle Epsom salt, some sort of iron for plants, and to put a couple of tablespoons of vinegar in a gallon of water to help the plants absorb the minerals. Plant SOS - they need minerals just like we do I guess.

RE: whey - oh my gosh, don't get me started. I bought Dr Eades book on how to shrink the middle aged middle. It was a whey protein drink diet. I followed it to the LETTER and was so confused about why I could not lose weight doing this. I researched and found out the insulin response had to be the culprit. I was tired, hungry, and frankly, grossed out. I pitched it all. I had purchased a mass ton of it, all excited about this book. I made all kinds of whey shakes and had all these brands I was comparing. Never again. Never!! Ugh...
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:50 AM   #408
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I have lost about 15 lbs since the end of June using about 1 scoop of whey protein powder per day in a smoothie. I use unsweetened almond/ cashew milk, glucomannan, ice and sometimes coffee. It is very filling I think due to the glucomannan. I have the smoothie usually after dinner serving as a dessert. I usually fast til noonish most days and eat low carb. I have no idea where my macros fall as I do not track. I tend to get very depressed when I eat very low carb and tracking seems to be something I do not stick to. Having said all that I am soon to be 55 and my belly fat seems to be resistant, so I am thinking about tracking but am not sure I am ready to give up the whey protein as I have not binged on sweets due to looking forward to these smoothies each evening.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:00 AM   #409
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Just piping in on the Whey discussion...A serving of Whey consumed quickly (like in a breakfast shake) makes me ravenous within 2 hours. Increasing the dosage just makes hunger worse. Interestingly though, a serving of Whey consumed slowly (like mixed in a pot of tea and sipped throughout the morning) is very satisfying and keeps me feeling stable for 4-6 hours. Just thought that was an interesting accidental find. (Slowing down delivery doesn't fix the other issues with it...tummy bloat, nasal congestion, possible aggravation of aches...)
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:46 AM   #410
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Whey protein makes me hungry too. I don't do a lot of protein powder anymore, but if I do use it for some reason, I use Jay Robb egg protein.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:00 AM   #411
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RE: Epsom salts - I forgot to mention that the issue with getting your magnesium is to get better sleep. Mark's Daily Apple/Sisson has an article about this - How to Take a Better Bath.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:37 PM   #412
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I've posted more comments on the sticky in progress. Would you guys take a look?

I'm happy to clarify my tweeks vs Fung recommendations.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:07 AM   #413
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Hi all!

Just popping in...

Epsom salt/magnesium baths have rescued me when I have had beginning colds or muscle aches. Really effective for me. I tend to take a magnesium supplement daily anyway, but I notice that sometimes I need more, but if I take it orally, I get potty issues... (I take magnesium gluconate, so it is already less than with citrate, but still...) Sitting in a magnesium enriched bath gives me all the benefits but none of the negatives associated with magnesium consumption! And like Key Tones said, it is great to have a bath about half an hour before bedtime: not too hot, not too cold... 20 minutes only and then off to bed. My sleep is amazing!

As for whey... I sometimes bake soul bread with it. But I have found that when I use whey it does nothing to improve my feeling of satiety when consuming, so I now have three big containers of whey sitting around in my larder. Personally, I'd rather use other products that are less refined because even without checking insulin levels I know it is not causing a good response in my body when I consume it. It sounded great when it became popular in the LC comunity, but it just boosts the amount of protein I consume already which is not something I need.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:00 AM   #414
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Sorry if I am butting in where not needed. Whey protein is known to be insulinogenic and I don't believe there is anything controversial about that. Here is a link to a study that demonstrates this in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3471010/

Goodness, it's never butting in to add to a discussion.

This was info I did not know. It did shock me, but it's important that I learned about it. I have learned so many things from this forum.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:21 AM   #415
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I still like to make my shake once in a while using unsweetened almond milk, a half cup of berries, and a little cinnamon and vanilla. Plus a little HWC.

No whey added.

I put berries in the Vitamix because for some reason I can't handle the seeds when chewing. The seeds are very important nutritionally!
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:37 PM   #416
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That is a great solution Susan!

Just popping in to tell anyone interested that there is a new podcast on the livin la vida low carb with Dr. Ted Naiman (Key Tones - I bet you have already listened to one)! It is episode 1146 and is a lecture he gave on this year's low carb cruise.

He covers some pretty specific physiology and some might find it a bit dry but I loved it. He is a good speaker. I may even listen to it again as it was jam packed with info.
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Old 08-25-2016, 04:35 AM   #417
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Vanilla,

That is why you need a doctor to check your T4 and T3 levels. Synthroid takes effect very slowly, and I remember not really noticing anything, but when my doctor tested,he was able to assure me that I was getting the thyroid support I needed.

This is important because all thyroid Rx brands are different in minor ways, and any one can be ineffective for a specific person. Over the years, I have had to change Rx twice because of such problems. Only labs that check specific hormone levels can determine whether or not you are benefitting from your Rx.
TSH alone is inadequate.
I get checked every three months or so. A little longer this time only because waiting to do another check with cholesterol next month. Hoping my improved cholesterol numbers will impress her. So how slowly does synthroid take to show any improvement? I mean, it did show improvement with the TSH within the first month from 9.5 down to 3. something. Of course, she was okay with that even though I knew getting it down to around 1 was better. Without looking at the labs, I think the T4 changed a wee bit but the T3 hasn't changed a bit in the year I've been on meds. That said, I haven't been tested since taking the Cytomel (first 5mcg/day, now 10/mcg), so I'm hoping to see what my numbers are next month.

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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
When I was getting my dose right, my doctor saw me every 3 months along with blood work. I landed at 125mg. and have been there for the past 7 months. It sounds like you never upped your dose to a level that might have made a difference.....Of course, it may not be the right kind of drug that you need....... Very frustrating if you don't have a knowledgeable doctor. I have to admit, it did take things into my own hands and upped my dose when I felt it was time. I would tell him but I wouldn't wait to have him give me the go ahead. We are able to discuss it pretty well when I did see him.
I began at 50 mg (or mcg whichever it is), and have been at 75 for a few months. So you upped your meds yourself? Are you on synthroid or armour? What did you doc say?

I've mentioned this before but aside from thinning hair and inability to lose weight, I didn't fit the typical hypothyroid pattern. When I read about the issues women have on Stop the Thyroid Madness FB page, I don't feel like I have hardly any of those issues. I thought once I got on meds I'd feel this difference - any kind of difference - but just haven't. Nothing that me go hmmmm.

I've been speaking up with the GP and let her know I wasn't going to go on a low dose statin and that I was fine with my cholesterol numbers. It was a first test and if my hdl and trigs have improved, my total cholesterol may have gone up in which case she'll probably still mention the statin. It's the thyroid numbers that have been harder to debate with her. It may not sound like it, but I've been more proactive with these issues than ever before but do you just flat out tell them you want to change up your meds?
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:33 AM   #418
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Not everyone has all the hypo symptoms you read about, so don't worry about that. However, you should not 'settle' for a TSH of 3.0. For anyone on thyroid Rx, doctors almost always aim for a TSH of 1.0 or lower as an indication of appropriate dosage. My own TSH is always considerably lower because I take 30mcg of Cytomel, and Cytomel will lower the TSH more than the T4 Rx. Since you're taking Cytomel, unless your TSH is 1.0 or lower, you are under-treated.

ALSO keep in mind that if your hypo was untreated for any length of time (as it was for most of us), that slow thyroid will elevate your LDL. And it goes down very slowly. I think it was 3 years of slow lowering LDL for me after I was first treated, and although all my doctors know this, they all 'reacted' to my elevated LDL. I attribute this to how good the drug reps have been at brainwashing them. So if there's any issue with your LDL, remind your doctor that you need to give it more time to return to 'normal' via your thyroid Rx.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:43 AM   #419
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Yes, I took it upon myself to slowly increase my synthroid. I was visiting my doctor and having blood work every 3 months and would wait the full 6 wks. before making a change. When I visited, I would tell him. Checking TSH was important and I now see my doc once a year. Like Leo, my TSH level is less than 1.0 with appropriate meds.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:34 AM   #420
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[QUOTE=Mimosa23;17509989]Hi all!

Just popping in...

Epsom salt/magnesium baths have rescued me when I have had beginning colds or muscle aches. Really effective for me ... Sitting in a magnesium enriched bath gives me all the benefits but none of the negatives associated with magnesium consumption! And like Key Tones said, it is great to have a bath about half an hour before bedtime: not too hot, not too cold... 20 minutes only and then off to bed. My sleep is amazing!/QUOTE]

love love love epsom salt baths, i do them twice a week, now on my fasting days, they are soon relaxing and definitely help with the sleep issues ... but i do them hot and for about an hour, they're my spa time

Finished my 23rd 36-hr fast this morning, which to me is just kind of crazy My stomach is shrinking, my waist has returned
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