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Old 07-30-2016, 01:13 PM   #241
beachguy
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Before I started doing alternate day fasting, I would look in the refrigerator and wonder if I had enough food. Now I look in the refrigerator and wonder if I can eat it before it goes bad.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:06 AM   #242
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Before I started doing alternate day fasting, I would look in the refrigerator and wonder if I had enough food. Now I look in the refrigerator and wonder if I can eat it before it goes bad.
RIGHT?! So many good leftovers in there, but not enough meals in the day to get rid of them!
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:33 AM   #243
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Before I started doing alternate day fasting, I would look in the refrigerator and wonder if I had enough food. Now I look in the refrigerator and wonder if I can eat it before it goes bad.
hehe, so true. our refrigerator is so much emptier!

fasting today
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:58 AM   #244
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Just sending you all love and positivism as we end July...I'm sicker than a dog here, but onward to a better August for all of us!!
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:17 AM   #245
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Feel better, Katie.
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:49 PM   #246
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Before I started doing alternate day fasting, I would look in the refrigerator and wonder if I had enough food. Now I look in the refrigerator and wonder if I can eat it before it goes bad.
Yes! It takes a while to remember to pare it down on shopping.

Man, my appetite is really down. I can't eat what I usually do. I've been out shopping most of the weekend. I can't believe how small my appetite is.
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:57 AM   #247
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Morning!

I have the same thing regarding our fridge, LOL!

I also noticed that my money goes away less quickly. I usually withdraw 200 euros a week for lunches at work, evening dinner shopping, etc, and now I spend that in three weeks! I got money out two weeks ago and have a little over a third of the 200 euros left in my wallet...

TOM is here, and I must say that if I wasn't so regular and I know when TOM comes, it would have totally crept up on me! No PMS symptoms whatsoever, and hardly any pain in my back either. Apart from 2lbs water weight, I have no bloating or the feeling that I'm fat... I have to say that with ZC and LCHF, the symptoms were also much reduced compared to a 'normal' diet, but with fasting added to the mix, I am positively amazed at the lack of feeling blah!
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:55 AM   #248
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:33 AM   #249
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The body just really seems to shift around fat and muscle eating this way.
That must be what's happening. I didn't lose any more weight (can you say TURTLE?), but I can sure tell there's shifting taking place. Not huge, but enough to tell.

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Before I started doing alternate day fasting, I would look in the refrigerator and wonder if I had enough food. Now I look in the refrigerator and wonder if I can eat it before it goes bad.
True! Our food bill has dropped drastically. My husband isn't doing this since he doesn't have a weight issue, but he's trying to stay away from processed foods.
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:37 AM   #250
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I hope this gets seen since this thread moves at lighting speed.

In the beginning of Jason's book (The Obesity Code) he talks about not cutting calories because the body will naturally downshift expending calories (my understanding). Yet here we all are drastically cutting our calories because of fasting. Is there an explanation of why fasting works differently than simply cutting calories?? Did I miss that part?
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:28 AM   #251
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I would not claim that I am drastically cutting calories because of fasting. I would say that the things I eat are more nutritionally dense. I do OMAD. I have not eaten breakfast for years. I now skip lunch too but that lunch would have consisted of a couple eggs and strips of bacon. Some of that ends up in my dinner along with what I normally would have eaten.

For those that are fasting longer than a day, would for sure reduce overall food intake and save $. In the beginning, I ended up having to throw away some eggs.

So when it comes to looking at calories in/calories out (CICO), Dr. Fung has made it pretty clear that he does not ascribe to that hypothesis. He is on the side of controlling insulin or rather resisting insulin.
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:12 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by vanilla_latte View Post
I hope this gets seen since this thread moves at lighting speed.

In the beginning of Jason's book (The Obesity Code) he talks about not cutting calories because the body will naturally downshift expending calories (my understanding). Yet here we all are drastically cutting our calories because of fasting. Is there an explanation of why fasting works differently than simply cutting calories?? Did I miss that part?

It confused me also - and I'm sure a number of others!

On the Diet Doctor site they have an Ask the Experts section for members and Dr. Fung is one of the experts. So, I asked him the same question on behalf of everyone here. Here's his answer:
________

Dr. Jason Fung: It's not about calories. It's about insulin. Reducing calories but not reducing insulin results in metabolic slowdown. Reducing calories and insulin does not.
________

Also, another member asked about longer vs. shorter fasts so here's that question and answer:

I know it's probably hard to put a number on it, but roughly how much more powerful are longer fasts vs., say, 24 hour fasts for weight loss? How much more insulin improvement and weight loss would one expect from, say, a 3-day or 7-day fasts than for doing alternate-day 24-hour fasts?

Dr. Jason Fung: I would guess that doubling the time of fasting increases the effectiveness by more than double - likely 2.5 times.
________

Happy fasting!!

*********

Carolyn

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Old 08-01-2016, 10:04 AM   #253
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Thanks Carolyn for sharing that. I would again refer to the Jimmy Moore/Fung interview (I think 1038) where this same question is discussed in detail.

I think it is really hard for us to correct our thinking about CICO because we think it is intuitive but it actually wrong. What counts is insulin as the major player. So eating low cal is not the same as fasting is those calories are made up of carbs or even primarily protein because these foods will raise insulin production.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:08 AM   #254
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Thanks Carolyn for sharing that. I would again refer to the Jimmy Moore/Fung interview (I think 1038) where this same question is discussed in detail.

I think it is really hard for us to correct our thinking about CICO because we think it is intuitive but it actually wrong. What counts is insulin as the major player. So eating low cal is not the same as fasting is those calories are made up of carbs or even primarily protein because these foods will raise insulin production.
If the goal is to drive down blood glucose, calories do make a difference. Whether that translates to reducing insulin resistance is another question. Combining fasting with lchf reduced calorie meals seems to be optimal for reducing blood glucose.

Fortunately, fasting seems to reduce our calories-in anyway, so we may not need to worry about it. But if someone is trying to reverse disease plus lose weight, I think reducing calories would probably be helpful.

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Old 08-01-2016, 10:09 AM   #255
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The goal is to reduce insulin.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:17 AM   #256
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The goal is to reduce insulin.
Cathy. Sorry, I think I was updating my post while you were responding.

I agree. The question is, how closely are blood glucose and insulin related when doing fasting. I remember Fung saying it was possible to reduce glucose without lowering insulin resistance, but I think that was without fasting.

When using diet to fight cancer, the recommendation is to eat a ketogenic diet AND restrict calories to lower blood glucose.

It certainly is possible, that in both cases it is really insulin and glucose is being used as a marker for insulin. It could be because it is so easy to test glucose and more difficult to test insulin.

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Old 08-01-2016, 05:47 PM   #257
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Rich....yes, yes and yes!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:09 PM   #258
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For those that are fasting longer than a day, would for sure reduce overall food intake and save $. In the beginning, I ended up having to throw away some eggs.
I've kept eggs in the refrigerator for many weeks. If I crack them and they don't stink, I eat them. Never had a bad one yet. I never use those that look already cracked.
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:42 PM   #259
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Yes, I feel fairly sure they would have been ok but I had stored them for 6 wks already and knew I would not be using them anytime soon.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:08 PM   #260
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Dr. Jason Fung: It's not about calories. It's about insulin. Reducing calories but not reducing insulin results in metabolic slowdown. Reducing calories and insulin does not.
________

Also, another member asked about longer vs. shorter fasts so here's that question and answer:

I know it's probably hard to put a number on it, but roughly how much more powerful are longer fasts vs., say, 24 hour fasts for weight loss? How much more insulin improvement and weight loss would one expect from, say, a 3-day or 7-day fasts than for doing alternate-day 24-hour fasts?

Dr. Jason Fung: I would guess that doubling the time of fasting increases the effectiveness by more than double - likely 2.5 times.

Carolyn
Thank you so much Carolyn for asking about these questions!! I was trying to cycle my calories in addition to the fasting, but it seems like it might be best to lengthen the fast and eat LCHF for the OMAD meal. It looks like the fasting book from Dr. Fung and Jimmy Moore will be released mid October (according to the quick Amazon search). I am still waiting for Dr. Fung's book from the library, but I might just head over to the bookstore to get it.
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:14 PM   #261
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So today I started Stillman's Quick Weight Loss (Lean meat, Lean cheese, eggs only) for two weeks. I figured I could do it as my OMAD. I made it until 6pm!! Hooray!

My question is: Why do I get intense sugar cravings about 45 min. after eating?

I ate two turkey patties, two eggs, 1/4 cup cottage cheese & 2 TB SF ketchup.
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:44 PM   #262
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So today I started Stillman's Quick Weight Loss (Lean meat, Lean cheese, eggs only) for two weeks. I figured I could do it as my OMAD. I made it until 6pm!! Hooray!

My question is: Why do I get intense sugar cravings about 45 min. after eating?

I ate two turkey patties, two eggs, 1/4 cup cottage cheese & 2 TB SF ketchup.
YEAH Katie for making it until 6pm!! That is awesome!! I am not sure about the sugar cravings after eating (from the menu). I know that when I eat something very spicy, I want something sweet. Not sure where that comes from. But I didn't see anything spicy from your meal. Has it been like that recently with the intense sugar cravings, or just today's OMAD?
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:24 AM   #263
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Katie, excellent for making it to 6pm!!!! I would think your protein may be too high and that could cause cravings because protein can cause an insulin response. Maybe lower protein and up the fats? Fats cause the lowest insulin response... Just an idea here...

When I did Stillmans I was craving food the whole time. I could eat lots but no hunger reduction at all. When I went back to my usual LCHF the cravings went away pretty quickly. I personally find that adding fat works the best for me.

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Old 08-02-2016, 12:31 AM   #264
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Thanks, friends!
The sugar cravings have always seemed to be an issue for me. Except for when I am hardcore Atkins 72 style eating. They disappeared eventually, but so did my appetite for all foods.
We weren't the type of family growing up that had dessert after dinner, so I am unsure when it started. Perhaps drinking soda with my meals during my teen years?

I remember reading about chromium (?) deficiencies a long time ago, but I just don't understand.
Even if it's psychological (IE: I've done it for so long, its habit), it sure feels very physical. Almost like nicotine withdrawal.
Its triggered every time I eat.

(PS) Unsure if it is this virus, or lack of excitement about Stillman food (blah) ...but making it to 6 was super easy today. I rode the hunger pangs. Expecting a good weigh in tomorrow!
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Last edited by Partyof8; 08-02-2016 at 12:32 AM..
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:27 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgwwilson View Post
It confused me also - and I'm sure a number of others!

On the Diet Doctor site they have an Ask the Experts section for members and Dr. Fung is one of the experts. So, I asked him the same question on behalf of everyone here. Here's his answer:
________

Dr. Jason Fung: It's not about calories. It's about insulin. Reducing calories but not reducing insulin results in metabolic slowdown. Reducing calories and insulin does not.
________

Also, another member asked about longer vs. shorter fasts so here's that question and answer:

I know it's probably hard to put a number on it, but roughly how much more powerful are longer fasts vs., say, 24 hour fasts for weight loss? How much more insulin improvement and weight loss would one expect from, say, a 3-day or 7-day fasts than for doing alternate-day 24-hour fasts?

Dr. Jason Fung: I would guess that doubling the time of fasting increases the effectiveness by more than double - likely 2.5 times.
________

Happy fasting!!

*********

Carolyn
Excellent, thank you Carolyn!!

When I said "drastically cutting calories" probably should have left out "drastically". I was thinking more of in terms of the way he described things at the beginning of the book as opposed to fasting. I don't know if that makes sense or not. But since it's the insulin that needs to be reduced, it does make sense that one can eat quite a bit of dense food, calorie wise speaking, and yet the insulin remains low.

Eating in a 5-6 window I'm eating roughly the same amount of calories as before, about 1000-1200 when I track occasionally. Not bad considering the amount of fat that goes into that eating window.

I just downloaded that podcast again, Clackley, thanks. I had listened to it already but it was a while back before I decided to give this a go and read his book.

Thanks for all the comments!
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Last edited by vanilla_latte; 08-02-2016 at 05:29 AM..
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Old 08-02-2016, 06:41 AM   #266
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How do you all do this? Yesterday I ate very low carb....had a hard time falling asleep - could not sleep until 2am. This morning when I woke I felt so weak I could barely stand it...My fasting BS was 90 which was great. I had a piece of ezekial bread with almond butter (should have been eggs)and now feel better but I was feeling so weak before. Do any of you feel weak and tired from no breakfast or does it take a few days to get over that?
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:33 AM   #267
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How do you all do this? Yesterday I ate very low carb....had a hard time falling asleep - could not sleep until 2am. This morning when I woke I felt so weak I could barely stand it...My fasting BS was 90 which was great. I had a piece of ezekial bread with almond butter (should have been eggs)and now feel better but I was feeling so weak before. Do any of you feel weak and tired from no breakfast or does it take a few days to get over that?
Sounds like carb withdrawal to me. You may try including a couple of cups of salty chicken broth to help ride it out.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:13 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by vanilla_latte View Post
In the beginning of Jason's book (The Obesity Code) he talks about not cutting calories because the body will naturally downshift expending calories (my understanding). Yet here we all are drastically cutting our calories because of fasting. Is there an explanation of why fasting works differently than simply cutting calories?? Did I miss that part?
One way I have heard him explain it is energy is like money. You keep some in your wallet all the time (blood sugar & glycogen from what you eat today), but you keep a lot more in the bank (fat stored in fat cells).

If you know you can easily get to the bank, and you have plenty of money there, you can spend what is in your wallet freely and dip into your bank account for whatever else you need or want.

Insulin keeps you from going to the bank- the fat cells can't release fat for energy if there is a bunch of insulin hanging around. If you knew you couldn't get to the bank, you would cut down your expenses to make the money in your wallet last. If your body senses it can't access your fat stores, it will slow things down to match what is in your "wallet."

Fasting keeps insulin low- makes it easy to get to the bank where there is a huge supply of money/energy, so it doesn't matter what is coming in to the wallet.

That made it mke sense to me.
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:31 AM   #269
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WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Gina-
Yes, but eating very low carb will also keep insulin low, so I really don't see the advantage to fasting. I'm currently doing zero carb (just fish and meat with fats), and I'm eating a lot and have lost below my goal weight (143 this morning).

As I've posted before, I once did a 3-day 'water' fast for a colonoscopy and didn't notice any difference in my body at all. Perhaps there were wonderful things happening internally, but nothing that I noticed then or later. AND all the weight I lost from that fast was simply water because it returned the day after I began eating my normal low-carb.

I'm not knocking 'fasting,' but I'm suspicious of a lot of the claims Dr. Fung makes because they don't resonate with my experience.
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:56 AM   #270
DrunkenSailor
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 274
Gallery: DrunkenSailor
Leo,

I've been reading/re-reading a lot on his blog lately, and I think he would say that (probably due to your low-carb diet) you are not experiencing insulin resistance. Therefore you have no problems accessing your "bank"/fat stores when necessary.

Some people otoh, like the diabetic patients he treats, may have such severe insulin resistance, that low carb alone is not enough to reverse it and fasting may help them break what he calls the "vicious cycle" of insulin resistance.

That would explain why some, like you, may not see much noticeable benefit from fasting, but others may see drastic improvement over time from regular fasting.
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