Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Forum Jump
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2017, 04:04 AM   #1
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
My missing link for fat loss...

So I have been tweaking and fine tuning my WOE for years and have found intermittent fasting to be a key ingredients for my success of late.

Dr Fung's research and books have been a huge help for me in the last 6 months, and have finally helped me to get some ongoing success.

But as with all things, I tend to lose love for the principle and hope for something new!
This is just my stupid brain playing tricks on me though!

Now even though I am getting closer to my goal, I am still a way off and still need to get rid of some annoying persistent fat!

With the fasting I noticed that the day before fasting I was subconsciously adding more fat to my food, to compensate for the day of no food that was to come. Now this is totally counterproductive, because my body was using the energy from the fat through diet instead of the energy from fat on my body!

BIG LIGHTBULB MOMENT!!!!!!

So in order to utilise body fat for fuel, we need to eat less dietary fat! I am now still eating a LCHF diet, but instead of eating about 140-150 grams of fat give or take a day, I try to keep my fats to a maximum of about 120 grams, and leave it up to my body (that miracle of nature that does work) to utilise the rest of my body fat to provide me with the energy for the day.

WOW! I just kicked up my inchloss a notch or two and in the past 5 days of doing so, even whilst just recovered from norovirus and TOM is here, I lost one whole inch from my waist!

I was eating fat to maintenance levels, and not for weightloss. All other macros I kept the same. (50-77 grams protein and under 20 grams total carbs) I have not felt hungrier or more deprived, and energy has been good.

Just my experience, and maybe something for others to consider if you are not losing inches or weight but still have a way to go... I know it is just 5 days, but I will continue this for a bit to see if 30 days make a difference. I will get back to you then!

xxx
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 01-08-2017, 05:42 AM   #2
Patience
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,006
Gallery: Patience
Thanks for sharing your experience, Mimosa.
There is a point at which the high fat part of LCHF becomes too much fat.
Even with standard LC, Atkins said in one of his book that you can't overindulge with it. Good thing that you know your macros. Very impressive!
Patience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 05:58 AM   #3
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
I love fat, LOL! Good thing is that I can have quite a bit of it once I get to my goal, LOL!

I hoped that by sharing something quite obvious but so easily forgotten, that I can maybe help one or two others who are frustrated or can't see the trees through the forest! Xxx
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 12:02 PM   #4
Patience
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,006
Gallery: Patience
I remember a guy to used to post -- his impressive loss got stalled. Long story short, once he started measuring the HWC he put in his coffee, and not just pouring some in the cup, this weight loss continued and he reached his goal is a very short while. He was putting in a LOT and that extra fat tripped him up.
Patience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 01:19 AM   #5
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
Exactly! And it is so easy to just add a bit extra here and there and before you know it, it adds up to quite a lot! Without really noticing a difference in fullness or flavour as well! So I am now back to measuring and weighing just to get myself back to basics. I really want to get off the last 27 pounds and maintain well, so this is my aim for this year. Losing that alertness for me is fatal. I tend to add a bit of cheese here, an extra bit of butter there, a lug of olive oil more on my salads... Et voila, I am eating way more than I actually NEED.

xxx
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 12:57 PM   #6
jeaniem
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
jeaniem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,356
Gallery: jeaniem
Stats: 170/125/?
WOE: lc
Interesting. I have been hearing this on a lot of groups lately, first we must use our onboard pantry! Dr. Westman says that and I think Volek and Phinney say savor not slather the extra fat added to our lc diet. Once we are at goal like you said we can have more fat.
__________________
First challenge goal- 125ish-met!
Final challenge: Don't worry, be happy!

Refuse to quit!



http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...d.php?t=883453
jeaniem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 08:12 AM   #7
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,505
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/165/155
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
I don't believe that it is an either or situation. I think we use both stored body fat and dietary fat. If there is no dietary fat available, then it seems logical that stored body fat would be used. I get confused when I consider this and the insulin response element.

How I understand this is that insulin will block stored fat from being freed up (along with storing dietary fat). This takes me back to the question of eating windows. It seems logical that if a person is not taking in any food for periods of time, that body fat should be utilized. This doesn't appear to happen for me or not much.

Why? It has to be hormonal. I have heard Dr. Phinney say 2 contradictory things. One is that no one should eat less than 1200 calories per day. Okay. On the heals of that he said that if a person has their carbs and protein dialed in correctly, and not losing weight, they need to dial back their dietary fat. Okay but this would take me well below the barely meeting the 1200 cal per day - particularly on I.F. days..... I have zero faith in calorie counting as a weight loss method.

I know for sure I am not the only one - in fact, I think it is more common than not for women post menopausal.

I am hoping this will work for you and am encouraging you to go for it.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 08:36 AM   #8
srinath_69
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cola SC/Charlotte NC
Posts: 279
Gallery: srinath_69
Stats: 238/149/138
WOE: Fibonnaci fasting, BPT atkins 20
Start Date: Jun 1, July 25, Aug 15, sept 15, Oct 12
Dietary fat is sorta like the fuse string, and body fat is the dynamite.
That is one way to analogize it. I feel miserable and low energy sometimes. Fat - even a tiny, 1/4 teaspoon or even less if its a good solid fat like butter or coconut oil I take a tiny morsel and roll it around in my mouth, and I sometimes get "jump started" for hours and hours if I am actively doing things then. So my body seems to need a bit of a jump start. Nowadays those active windows are getting shorter, the morsel has to get bigger and the peak energy expenditure in the "active" stage also cant be that high. When I was 200-190 lbs, tiny bit of butter @ 7-8 am would keep me working all day. Now - 1-2 hrs. But I also am under 150 (officially underweight).

That's something I understand as the underlying mechanism of our fat metabolism and energy expenditure.

Thanks.
Srinath.
srinath_69 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 08:54 AM   #9
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I don't believe that it is an either or situation. I think we use both stored body fat and dietary fat. If there is no dietary fat available, then it seems logical that stored body fat would be used. I get confused when I consider this and the insulin response element.

How I understand this is that insulin will block stored fat from being freed up (along with storing dietary fat). This takes me back to the question of eating windows. It seems logical that if a person is not taking in any food for periods of time, that body fat should be utilized. This doesn't appear to happen for me or not much.

Why? It has to be hormonal. I have heard Dr. Phinney say 2 contradictory things. One is that no one should eat less than 1200 calories per day. Okay. On the heals of that he said that if a person has their carbs and protein dialed in correctly, and not losing weight, they need to dial back their dietary fat. Okay but this would take me well below the barely meeting the 1200 cal per day - particularly on I.F. days..... I have zero faith in calorie counting as a weight loss method.

I know for sure I am not the only one - in fact, I think it is more common than not for women post menopausal.

I am hoping this will work for you and am encouraging you to go for it.
Hi Cathy! I am certainly one of those people who like to eat their food as fatty as possible, and I think the amounts that I was consuming were just too much. It certainly is nice to know that I can maintain whilst eating lots of nice fatty things, but I can't really lose consistently when I eat as much fat as I did. I am still eating high fat, and if I look at my macro percentages my fat consumption still lies at around 70-78 percent, so not too bad. I am not sure what is going on for you, but yes it could definitely be hormonal.

Considering that I am still going to have three tablespoons of mayo (and staying below my new maximum of fat grams) on my shredded chicken tonight, I guess I am still getting some fat in, LOL! But with no cheese, creme fraiche and all these extras it certainly is lower fat for me than usual. I could NEVER eat low fat, this makes me tremendously unhappy. I would rather stay chubby than forgo completely on dietary fat, LOL!

Calorie counting as such confuses me too. I am only planning one meal tomorrow, and even if I tried I could not eat 1200 calories in one sitting if I stick to my macro grams. I would have to eat so much volume, I would burst! And Phinney says one thing, but then Maria Emmerich says another, and so forth and so on. If you are happy with the way you are feeling, your health is good, you are on the path that you want to be, I think you are doing a great job for yourself!

I will never be skinny skinny, firstly because I enjoy eating, secondly, I enjoy eating and thirdly, I am too old for skinny skinny to look good anymore, LOL! But hopefully with reducing my dietary fat and IF I will achieve my sexy in my 40's figure, LOL!
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 09:55 AM   #10
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,505
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/165/155
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Thanks for your kind thoughts. I do understand what you are saying about reducing over all fat and the complications of doing I.F.. I wonder if it would be more accurate to think that a person should not eat below 1200 on a regular basis.

I know you have an upcoming wedding and would like to look good and feel good but if your avi is any indication of where you are now ~ well you have achieved both!!
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 04:42 AM   #11
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
Thanks for the compliments, Cathy! Unfortunately, my hips don't lie, LOL! I carry my weight below my waist and above my knees. So my head and shoulders look fab, and my ankles look pretty darn cute too, it's in between where I am having trouble, LOL! That bit always goes last...
I am also making sure I have one higher protein/fat day a week to keep my body guessing. So today I am adding a bit extra of everything, and I may even have some cheese just because I can!
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 07:25 AM   #12
Patience
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,006
Gallery: Patience
Phinney's book seemed to be written more for men, if my memory serves.
1200 cals seems to me to be one of those sweeping generalizations, true most of the time but not all of the time.
Patience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 08:03 AM   #13
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,505
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/165/155
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
The info came from an interview and it was specifically about women and weight loss and the 1200 calories was a minimum and yes, I believe he meant on a regular basis. If a person were to be using intermittent fasting, that 1200 wouldn't apply on those days I am thinking.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 08:40 AM   #14
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
I just looked at my week and the days where I have eaten TMAD I am between 1200 and 1400 cals and the days that I ate OMAD I was under 1000. Then I didn't eat for a whole day, and today with my restaurant lunch (I dread to think what that adds up to precisely but I am guessing) I probably will be closer to 1800-2000 cals. It all balances out. And I have to say, that there is NO WAY I could eat 1200 cals in one sitting without exaggerating on fats. And like I said, that obviously does not work for me and the goals that I have. I have found that for me it is more important to get my macros into a minimum and maximum gram range, more so than making sure there is a certain number of calories that I need to consume.

To be honest, I have found now that there is a whole new revival on fasting thanks to Dr Fung, that Dr Phinney has been shouting louder and louder against fasting. Everybody has their own agenda. And here, everybody needs to figure out what works for them. It is great to share and read about experiences, this way we can help and support eachother in figuring out what works for each individual. But to put a general number on certain things and make this seem like the golden rule for everyone is in my opinion just nonsense. This has never been useful.
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 09:34 AM   #15
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,505
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/165/155
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
I wasn't aware that Dr. Phinney was opposed to fasting!! What is his stance? I personally think fasting is the way to go for the insulin resistant. Dr. Fung makes very good and compelling arguments for it.

I know that don't meet 1000 calories on some days I do OMAD. I don't try to meet any calorie goal but rather eat a normal meal that is keto and no snacks. I still keep carbs below 20g total and protein not exceeding 60g but honestly, those 2 things are below my usual goals and this is consistently on OMAD days. Dr. Fung talks about the calorie myth. I agree with him on that theory as well.

This has not been brought up but I have been doing lots of fasting since early March (10 months) and if it were true that muscle wasting happens with fasting (subsequent low protein), I would have noticed by now and it simply is not happening.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 09:49 AM   #16
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
I am a member at a website of a swedish doctor and in some of the latest videos from dr Phinney, he is not a fan of any fasting longer than 24 hours. This is what was written as an introduction to the latest video: ' Dr. Phinney has a slightly more skeptical perspective on fasting than some other experts. Specifically, he worries about the results of extended fasting (more than 24 hours) on protein loss and the risk of re-feeding syndrome.'

Some of the other stuff from him also shows that he is opposed to fasting and worries about muscle wasting.

Honestly, I think every dr with a book or products out there is going to push their own agenda. Now their agendas are not necessarily good or bad, in my opinion they can work or they don't for you. Simple.

Personally, thanks to dr Fung I have found what works for me and I tend to be in his camp on the fasting views and on the non-issue of muscle wasting. But that is just my experience and opinion. If I would follow the recommendations of dr Phinney for protein, I would already run into trouble, because it is just too much for me.
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 10:07 AM   #17
GME
Blabbermouth!!!
 
GME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA Coast
Posts: 7,346
Gallery: GME
Stats: 250/199/not sure 5'7
WOE: IF/LC
Start Date: April 2000 (the first time)
I didn't know that about Dr. Phinney either. A quick googling shows he believes it causes muscle loss- even in a short as 24 hours.
__________________
Gina
GME is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 10:27 AM   #18
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,505
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/165/155
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Yup, I agree that muscle wasting is not an issue for me and I have also had success with I.F. where none has come with other things.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 11:11 AM   #19
srinath_69
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cola SC/Charlotte NC
Posts: 279
Gallery: srinath_69
Stats: 238/149/138
WOE: Fibonnaci fasting, BPT atkins 20
Start Date: Jun 1, July 25, Aug 15, sept 15, Oct 12
Muscle loss and re-feeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimosa23 View Post
Specifically, he worries about the results of extended fasting (more than 24 hours) on protein loss and the risk of re-feeding syndrome.'

Some of the other stuff from him also shows that he is opposed to fasting and worries about muscle wasting.
.
That re-feeding syndrome - LOL, depends on what you re-feed yourself with. I've eaten huge meals and never gained anything after and never had any ill effects. I've also eaten some what less food and got sick and ruined my weight loss trajectory for days to come.
I am a bit sensitive to the order of what I eat. Whatever it is, Fat comes first, carbs come @ the end. I like to start with fat and protein (meat) fat and fiber - nuts (not much needed here) and finish with fat and carbs (dessert). I screw that order up by eating sweet potato first and there goes my day.

Muscle wasting - complete myth. I thought I lost a bit, but I was gauging myself with a task where my body weight is the counter weight to the lift I was doing - a heavy speaker I was not able to lift as easily, but I was 50 lbs under and you lean back and use your own body as a counter weight, that meant I had to lean back further, and the angle of my hands changed and got me less of a straight up lift.

The key is, the longer term fasts have to be broken with Keto friendly meals for the least side effects after. My Nov 24th thanksgiving meal, I woke up the next day feeling so good. The Dec 14th one, utter misery, even when finishing up my meal and was pretty bad for an hour, and continued bad through that week, I ended up eating on 18th, 20th and 21st (all 3 were good meals but not big enough maybe) and broke that trend only around 27th or 28th, because my 26 meal was bigger but terrible.

Thanks.
Srinath.
srinath_69 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 07:59 AM   #20
Mimosa23
Major LCF Poster!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,643
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 228/177/150
WOE: LCHF/IF
Start Date: IF/LCHF start: June 2016
So yesterday evening after a week of lower numbers I ate a high fat meal, and today the start of my fast is certainly easier! I am trying for 72 hours, but this depends on my plans for the weekend. Apparently we are going to have a snowstorm and all sorts of ugly weather, so it would be great to fast, I am not going anywhere anyway! I am feeling lighter and less flabby somehow, but I will measure next week to see if this lower fat thing is actually working the way I want it to work!

xxx
__________________
Do as I say, not do as I do... DEFINITELY not do as I do!!!

female, 40 y/o, 5'10"

My weightloss journal: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/sh...2#post17556452

My 30-day ketogenic cleanse food pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/BempEGLejSXZ3GcF6
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Copyright ©1999-2017 Netrition, Inc. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Netrition, Inc.