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Old 01-24-2015, 10:59 AM   #1
SlowSure
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How dieting may make lean people fatter

Not specific to JUDDD but: How dieting makes the lean fatter: from a perspective of body composition autoregulation through adipostats and proteinstats awaiting discovery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...?dopt=Abstract
Quote:
Given the increasing prevalence of dieting in normal-weight female and male among young adults, adolescents and even children who perceive themselves as too fat (due to media, family and societal pressures), together with the high prevalence of dieting for optimizing performance among athletes in weight-sensitive sports, the notion that dieting and weight cycling may be predisposing a substantial proportion of the population to weight gain and obesity deserves greater scientific scrutiny.
It's a controversial area but I'm sure it's something that's occurred to a fair number of people and comes out in comments from time to time when people wish they could go back and warn their younger selves about dieting - particularly when they were within an acceptable weight range but wanted to lose 'vanity pounds'.
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:48 AM   #2
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I can relate to this on a few levels, but at age 16 (5'2") I was 122 pounds and had been told I was overweight my whole life by my mother. Due to many, many life stressors I developed Anorexia within a few weeks of my 16th birthday. in 4 or 5 months I weighted 92 pounds and stayed there until after my 21st birthday (enter sleepwalk eating at the time of the biggest life stressor I had ever encountered up to that point.)

I really think those years of literal starvation did severe damage to my metabolism and to my lean body mass. During those years of starvation I worked out like a maniac for hours a day at the gym every single day- so I was very fit, but when my body could no longer work out that way (enter spine disease and psoriatic arthritis at age 22) my weight and body composition suffered terribly.

At age 25 I started low carbing and lost from 230lb to 110lb, but after 4 years of low carb other areas of my health were not the best. I learned later that I'm not carb sensitive and for me it's not the best WOE for me. I know LC is great for some people, but I do not feel my best on LC. In fact, if there is any macro I need to watch it is fat. I do better when I eat modest amounts of fat and higher carbs and protein.

I know this is a novel, but I wish I could have told my younger self that 122lb was just fine.
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:14 PM   #3
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Ain't it the truth. I look back at photos of myself and think how great I looked, but I really did think I was a cow. I dieted myself into a life of weight struggles and it didn't have to be that way.
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:22 PM   #4
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I also thought I was obese at 150-160 in high school. I'm 5.7.
I often think about why I thought I was fat. I think I looked at skinny people and thought I should look the same. My mom, aunts, cousins etc were always on diets. Most of them weren't fat at all. My best friend's mother always kept a close eye on what my friend ate. She made it clear that she would be mortified if her daughter gained weight. So I guess I just picked up on this notion from many different places. Now I know how silly that was. And thank heavens I never handed this down to my kids.
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Old 01-24-2015, 04:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayLynn View Post
I also thought I was obese at 150-160 in high school. I'm 5.7.
This was me, exactly. At one point, I dieted my way down to 144 lbs (through a slimming clinic, due to my mom's coercion) but I still thought I was a cow. It didn't help I lived in Asia, and I towered among everyone in my HS. The rest of the girls were 5'2" or under and around 90-110 lbs.

My mom was also constantly dieting. And everyone was telling me how fat I was.

In college I just ballooned. At one point, my parents were having marital problems, my mom was drunk and I remember her calling me a pig.

I guess if I was just left along at 150-160 lbs in HS maybe I would have maintained that. I don't know. But I sure believe dieting constantly contributed a lot to my adult weight problem.
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Old 01-24-2015, 05:49 PM   #6
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Sorry I meant I towered above everyone in my HS.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:48 PM   #7
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Amélie, your situation sounds a lot like mine. My parents put me on my first diet when I was about ten years old. I got a little pudgy around that age, and the first diet I remember trying was the Weight Watchers frozen food diet. My mom would buy me anything I wanted as long as it was Weight Watchers or some other packaged diet food. In other words, it was mostly sugar and salt, no fat, and hardly any nutrition. And it just went on and on from there. I've tried so many diets that I can't even remember them all, but obviously I have wrecked myself over the last 25 years. The highest weight I reached was 260 when I was about 21 and living at college. The time in my life when I should have been my healthiest and happiest, I was instead the fattest and most miserable girl I knew.

I've been hovering around 215 for a while now, which is why I've decided to try JUDDD again, to see if it will give my metabolism a boost. I, too, wish that I could go back and tell my younger self just to control portion sizes and not to worry about trying every fad diet that ever existed in order to get down to some magic weight or size. Dieting had the opposite effect of what (my family and) I thought it would.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:15 AM   #8
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The stories here are quite upsetting and illustrate the theme of this paper so well.

Medically, there doesn't seem to be an official Number Need to Treat/Number Need to Harm to guide weight loss advice.

Even if there were tho' - how many of us think our younger selves would have listened? Or is this the deleterious power of family/social/media influences?
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:01 PM   #9
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Bumping for a variety of reasons
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:29 AM   #10
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Oh man, this thread makes me so sad. All these cycles of anxious women in our lives hating the way they look and picking at us.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:52 AM   #11
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Hi,Every one.
It is a shame that we listen to others.When they keep putting us down about weight.{And we listen.
We know if we are over weight or not. No one has to tell us.
But We let them.
That said,and the pass. We are doing something Now and hope we keep it up. For Yes how we look. But most of all health.
You have to let pass go and learn more about self and some times why we get fat and let our bodies go.
We know that and see lbs go on and on. and we start a diet and take some off and regain that and more. Then we say.Oh i will start tomorrow, next week, or 1st. of Jan. That last for while and then those slips.
I have always liked and loved me. I like who Im and im a good person. I have a great life and family. And yes, I have been fat of and on for years.

But For some reason,{AfterI Thought Mom might die, That I would have to come home and be in hosiples I was a sHamed of how I looked.
Plus I thought if Mom Died and I went home. Poeple would say was that Janet?
And after.
I came home.
I got on Green smoothies. April 1st 2013 @178 and I keep going. just few slips but i got right offf.the weight. only gained 3-7 lbs.
I started to feel good.
Now do i wish i didthis eariler in life. and stayed with it like now.Yes.
For looseing weight when older gets harder.and slower.
But I wont ever stop . I.m ageing great and dont look my age.{You see I still know Im cute. {even if some one dont, I Do.[@ they know Im.ha.
Love and like self.
Life is great. Keep it healthier and Move that body. Get others to join you in your health plan. Talk, read. post.
Just do not let others or self tell u. you will fall.
Yes we might. but get back up and head for more less slips.
You and I can.
If we did not think so,would we be here?

See u believe in self/
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:39 AM   #12
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Makes me sad too... I see myself in everyone here. My mom put me on a diet at age 9 or 10. I remember asking her "is it ok to eat if you are hungry" and she said "I don't know." We would measure ourselves on Saturdays and do exercises. I was a latch key kid though so I'd secretly binge after school and undo any progress I'd made, I think it was the deprivation mentality.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Makes me sad too... I see myself in everyone here. My mom put me on a diet at age 9 or 10. I remember asking her "is it ok to eat if you are hungry" and she said "I don't know." We would measure ourselves on Saturdays and do exercises. I was a latch key kid though so I'd secretly binge after school and undo any progress I'd made, I think it was the deprivation mentality.
I had a secret white chocolate candy stash in my nighttable, which was of course eventually discovered in a humiliating scene.

I would also ride my bike to the bakery nearby to buy pastries to eat in secret.

This was when I was 10-11. Picking at children and teens about their weight makes them extremely anxious and feel like a walking disappointment to their parents. My mom told me I looked "matronly" and that my abdominal weight made me lok like I had a "suitcase" in front of me. She is one of the kindest humans alive. It's amazing she didn't know the damage her words could do.
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Old 03-11-2017, 12:41 PM   #14
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Stunning thread. Thanks for bumping, Slow *hugs*.

The many mentions of secret eating particularly resonate with me. For forty years I think I never ate anything but salads in public. In my current life, I take great pleasure in eating what I'll call non-diet foods in public: pizza, or my beloved key lime pie, or a cookie, or french fries. It feels sooooo good. It's also a sort of test--not of me, but of the people I'm with. With few exceptions (there's always one), no one has said or word or looked at me funny. Either because of the ongoing education about obesity, or because I don't project embarrassment or apology. Or both.
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:31 AM   #15
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I don't remember why I needed to do this but a while back I consulted national statistics for eating disorders and couldn't believe my eyes when I read them as I'd no idea that they were so prevalent.

Round about the same time, I was looking for a particular recipe that I located on the blog of someone who is a binge eater. Again, the shame, physical pain, mental and emotional contortions went through made me think I've been walking around with my eyes closed. I'm typically very observant - so I remember being truly shocked at how much energy people must expend concealing eating disorders (of whatever nature) from other people.

What benefit would come into people's lives if they had that energy available to do something else other than use it to schedule elaborate concealment or grapple with shame?

And, I still believe that we need a Number Need to Treat and Number Needed to Harm for weight interventions.

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Old 03-12-2017, 07:39 AM   #16
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OMG, I'll pitch in with the exact opposite story.
I guess being a man, or being thick skinned, or growing up in India - I didn't care about weight. @ 238+ lbs - in fact I was past 240 at one point, if anyone suggested I lose weight, I'd say beeeh I really don't care I'm good on cholesterol and BP and whatever, and in 2013 foot surgery helped my foot pain go and literally took away all my weight worry with it. Even better was the fact that at just that time when I start walking after foot surgery on Jan 1 2014, I start being a chiropractic regular, and 4 adjustments a month give me a near complete relief from all body related problems.
2.5 yrs of that, and I get a diagnosis of pre diabetes. Now that triggers the thought that was percolating for the previous 12 yrs. Atkins my friend told me, ideal diet for a meat eater who is diabetic, and he had lost a good bit of weight and keeping it off is easy too, just eat meat. I say, bingo, if I get diabetic, I'll do that.
Anyway, I go to atkins, then to OMAD, then forget to eat 1 day, and drift into fasting for longer and longer.
I guess now @ 150-155 lb, I am not hearing complaints from people who say I'm too thin. Slowly the autophagy is making me look like I never was fat. My thought is, I can grab my reserve fat, so when its there, no such thing as too thin unless that's gone from baseball size to about tortilla sized.
I wasn't much more than 155 back in my teens when I used to be a fast bowler, I had the body of a fast bowler as well as the attitude. I was nicknamed "gunda" - a word that doubles as "fat" as well as "thug". In fact I almost believe I was over 155 when I hit my current height.

Weight is just a number to me, and its the less important of the other numbers on that scale. The problem is - the important numbers are all erratic. I'd read 6 for visceral fat, hit the rest room and come back @ 4. Same with Body fat. I've gained 1 lb eating, and gone from 9% to 14%.

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Old 03-12-2017, 02:01 PM   #17
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_bowling

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Old 03-13-2017, 03:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinath_69 View Post
Weight is just a number to me, and its the less important of the other numbers on that scale. The problem is - the important numbers are all erratic. I'd read 6 for visceral fat, hit the rest room and come back @ 4. Same with Body fat. I've gained 1 lb eating, and gone from 9% to 14%.
In several threads, I've seen people mention to you that BIA assessments of body fat, visceral fat etc. are not reliable: they're readily influenced by body water shifts, bladder/bowel evacuation, digestive tract contents etc. etc.

No technology is wholly adequate for differentiating the body composition of live people . Some technology makes decent approximations but they're all affected by food and water intake which is why such measurements have to be taken under the same circumstances such as time of day, contents of digestive/elimination tract/hydration status etc.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:58 AM   #19
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I try to be consistent, I however do on call work, have erratic schedules and more importantly, I seem to eat food that moves through my digestive tract over weeks not hours. I over load on green leafy veggies at the start of my meal, and that seems to essentially get me constipated for days.
However I also measure these many many times during the day like before and after a trip to the bathroom, and I write all of them down. Sometimes if I feel dinner was especially big or bad, I get a reading at the end of the day too. I sometimes hit my "early morning" empty stomach @ 3pm (like yesterday or day before yesterday) etc.
I am pretty confident in my assessment of it, basically I am a guy who looks for patterns in data in my day job, so I see the pattern and trend and even what are mathematically calculated in that DSM-BIA itself as well as what is "measured".

I can pretty much say I have gone from 143 or so to 152 or so in the last 4 weeks, and from 7-8% BF to 13-14% BF and from 2 to 5 visceral fat and I believe VF may be calculated form the BF reading.

Thanks.
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