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Old 10-31-2017, 07:23 PM   #1
DiamondDeb
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Fung Style Fasting Chat ~ NOVEMBER 2017

Welcome EVERYONE - if you are new to intermittent fasting, simply curious with questions, an old hand at it, or somewhere in between, jump right in!

Some quotes from Dr. Fung:


“If you think that calories cause obesity you can test this with a feeding study. What you find is that it always comes down to insulin.”
– Dr. Jason Fung

“In 1960, we ate three meals a day. There wasn’t much obesity. In 2014, we eat six meals a day. There is an obesity epidemic. So, do you really think we should eat six meals day?”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: unlocking the secrets of weight loss

“Lowers blood sugar levels Improves insulin sensitivity Increases energy Improves fat-burning Lowers blood cholesterol Prevents Alzheimer’s disease Extends life Reverses aging process Decreases inflammation”
― Jason Fung, The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended

“Even the National Cholesterol Education Program admits, “The percentage of total fat in the diet, independent of caloric intake, has not been documented to be related to body weight.”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss

“Carbohydrates in their natural, whole, unprocessed form, perhaps with the exception of honey, always contain fiber—which is precisely why junk food and fast food are so harmful. The processing and the addition of chemicals change the food into a form that our bodies have not evolved to handle. That is exactly why these foods are toxic.”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: unlocking the secrets of weight loss

“Simplistic arguments that “Carbs make you fat!” or “Calories make you fat!” or “Red meat makes you fat!” or “Sugar makes you fat!” do not fully capture the complexity of human obesity.”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss

The 7 Practical Benefits of Fasting
  1. Add to any diet
  2. Flexibility
  3. Power
  4. Cheat days
  5. Convenience
  6. Cheap
  7. Simplicity
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:13 PM   #2
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Thanks for the new thread Deb!
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:03 AM   #3
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Starting Nov @ 163 lb after a bad "halloween special" lunch @ my work. Yea pizza and cupcakes.
Planning to fast till Friday then eat till sunday afternoon and fast again for 2 weeks or there abouts.
Now last year I ate on 31st, 6th, 15th and 24th Nov. This year - I think I'd shoot for a 2 week after this sunday, and maybe eating on thanksgiving. I also was ~180-182 lb Oct 31st and had no idea of what the bottom would be. I had no goal weight or anything. I have good numbers from this point on, I nearly have exact daily weights. So it would be fun to repeat last year and see if I can actually get to a 10% BF stage.
Anyway I was 148lb on Dec 14th - I have even posted about that on this site. I dont think I'd be 148 that easily again, not because 10% BF is unattainable, but its because my bones have got heavier due to the HGH from fasting.

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Old 11-01-2017, 08:41 AM   #4
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Happy November everyone!!! Thanks, Deb!
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:14 AM   #5
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Wow November! After two trips in October, I am going to shoot for EOD fasting until thanksgiving. I've done a few multi day fasts, but I haven't got comfortable with it. I'm going to try for water fasts on fasting days and close to zero carb on eating days.

Today is water only. So far so good.

What's your plan for this month?
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:33 AM   #6
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I’m still working on getting dairy/cheese out of my diet again after allowing it after Hurricane Irma. Not having electricity and staying with friends made it seem reasonable for a week but it has been going on way too long!

My plan for November is to stick to 1-2 meals per day with my food being close to Whole30 clean. I feel so much better eating that way, boring as it is. I want to try being less strict for some holiday events so I’m hoping to just plan my meals for those times. We will see how that works.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:22 PM   #7
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I was thinking about EOD too...I started Monday, and am still fasting. Partly because I tested with my new ketone meter, and Monday night I was not in ketosis. Or Tuesday. I'll be checking shortly to see if I'm finally there. I knew I was eating higher carbs last week, but not binging or anything, but more than my normal 10-20/day. Thought I could bounce right back into ketosis. Apparently not. Grr.

So, now I'm not sure what I'll be doing. I'm feeling pretty good...well, I did have 1T coconut oil this morning because I was feeling weak last night. So it's not exactly a 3 day fast, but... Anyway, I'll probably continue tomorrow, and start breaking Friday night so I can eat on the weekend. I'd rather do a really long fast, but I am hesitant to do that on my own. So, I guess I'll just hang out this week, and see how I feel next week. Will fast again Monday, and go from there.
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:56 AM   #8
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I will be sticking with OMAD, working out daily in fasted state, and eating less restrictive for Thanksgiving Day.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:42 AM   #9
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Yesterday wasn't water only. I could not fall asleep last night so I had an HB egg and 2 olives. I'm considering it a good day.

Today I'm waiting until noon then having scrambled eggs, bacon, and half an avocado.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:26 PM   #10
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Carolyn, did you break your fast as planned? How are you doing?
Am curious how the refeeding is going and a summary of all the benefits you are experiencing from your months long fast.
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:24 AM   #11
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So, total fast Mon/Tues, Wed 1T coconut oil, THurs 6 almonds. Down 2 lbs...may just be the lack of food in my stomach. TOday I will start to break the fast, cuz dh likes me to eat with him on weekends. Planning on going back to fasting Monday.

I had somewhere seen a guide for how to break a fast, staying keto. Anyone know?

And question #2, anyone take prebiotics while fasting, and/or know much about kombucha?
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:20 PM   #12
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Those are great quotes posted on this thread.

Love reading all your posts here. I did a perfect 23:1 yesterday and felt really good about it. Will see how I do today. I usually do well with 20:4. Really working towards getting into a new decade.

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Old 11-03-2017, 04:00 PM   #13
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Thanks for the new thread Deb! I have been doing mostly 2 meals per day and throwing in an OMAD here and there. Weight at the lower end of my range for weeks now. Feeling hopeful I will break through to a new lower weight but in the meantime, feeling great and eating well when not fasting.
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:36 PM   #14
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Well, I'm hoping I did ok today refeeding. Some yogurt, nuts, cheese, avocado, and salmon at various points through the day. Tried not to eat too much. My stomach is not making noises...I feel fine. I hope I did ok. My plan is to eat lc this weekend, and go back to fasting Monday.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:05 AM   #15
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My 23:1 seemed fine but by midnight I was hungry so I had 2 slices of cheese. I think this time I should have a more fatty meal. I had naked chicken wings, nuts.

Cheering u all on My first meal has been around 5:00 pm

Good news is I dropped 2 pounds since last weigh in. Goal is to lose another 10 by Christmas. That would give me 28 pounds since August.

Betterthanever, yum. Love the entire food list.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:29 AM   #16
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Down 2 lbs from fasting M-R. I started testing glucose and ketones while I was fasting. Glucose seems to be higher for many people in the morning. Diabetics call it the dawn phenomenon. Apparently our bodies start to dump glucose in our blood in preparation for the day. Those who are insulin resistant do it, too. Not sure about "normal" people (do they exist??) It took me 3 days to get into ketosis...sticks measured that, as well as the blood test.

I'm still researching a lot about this. My blood glucose has been good, from what I can tell. I started eating yesterday, and will eat throughout the weekend, so I may test more too. I'm not sure what blood glucose does--I know it will go up, but I'm not sure how much is ok, and how quickly it should go down. I guess diabetics just test and follow a chart to add insulin. I want to test to see what shoots my glucose up (and assume insulin follows) and what doesn't affect me. It means a lot of finger pricking over the weekend! I don't know if I just can't find the info I'm looking for, or if it's another nutritional area that just hasn't been delved into yet!
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:37 PM   #17
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That's a good post. I am not sure about it but have heard of the dawn issue. How are you testing ketones?

I like Dr William Davis from Wheat Belly blog too besides Fung's. Is this helpful?



Check blood sugars
Immediately prior to
And then 30 to 60 minutes
After the start of each meal.
Ideally, the blood sugar 30-60 min. after a meal should be no higher than prior to eating.
This simple insight provides
Extraordinary control over metabolism,
Helps rapidly reverse diabetes and*pre-diabetes, and
Could even accelerate weight loss.
The goal here is not to control blood sugar with medication or insulin but to identify problem foods that provoke blood sugar and insulin, thereby impairing your weight-loss efforts.
Using a finger-stick blood sugar meter both pre and post-meal can be a very powerful tool for weight loss and the reversal of metabolic distortions such as high blood sugar.
How to apply the information?
If your blood sugar increases from, say, 90 mg/ dl to 140 mg/ dl 30 to 60 minutes after eating,*then re-examine the foods you ate to identify the culprit. The answer will be found in some hidden or underappreciated source of carbohydrates. Cut back on your portion size or eliminate that food. In the meantime, go for a walk, ride a stationary bike for 20 minutes, or engage in some other light activity to drop your blood sugar back to its starting level.
Once a meal has been demonstrated to be safe without raising blood sugar, there is no need to retest that meal in the future, unless you add or change one or more components. After just a few weeks of this, you will know which foods cause blood sugar trouble, and testing will only be necessary when you’re introducing unfamiliar foods.
Monitoring blood sugars to maintain*no change pre- and post-meals works wonders for many people who find they can finally snap out of a stubborn weight plateau.
If you don’t like the idea of checking finger-stick blood sugars, consider having your doctor measure a value called hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c). This value reflects blood sugar fluctuations experienced over the previous 90 days.
The typical*primary care doctor will say something like, “Your HbA1c is less than 6.5 percent, so you are okay,” meaning that, you don’t have diabetes and don’t need diabetes medication.
What he or she is not saying is that your HbA1c is ideal and does not have implications for health. That’s just not the case. In fact, people with HbA1c values in the “normal” range say, 5.6 percent are still at an increased risk for heart disease, cancer, hypertension, and dementia.

Actually it didn't give guide line. lol lets see how this looks
I think he said to not shoot over 120. I wonder if he still feels this way. This is from 2011.

One hour blood sugar: Key to carbohydrate control and reversing diabetes Posted on August 2, 2011 by Dr. William Davis Diabetics are instructed to monitor blood glucose first thing in the morning and two hours after eating. This helps determine whether blood sugar is controlled with medications like metformin, Januvia, Byetta injections, or insulin.
But that's not how you use blood sugar to use to prevent or reverse diabetes. Two-hour blood sugars are also of no help in deciding whether you have halted glycation , or glucose modification of proteins the process that leads to cataracts, brittle cartilage and arthritis, oxidation of small LDL particles, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, etc.
So the key is to check one-hour after-eating (postprandial) blood sugars, a time when blood glucose peaks after consumption of carbohydrates. (It may peak somewhat sooner or later, depending on factors such as how much fluid was in the meal; protein, fat, and fiber content; presence of foods like vinegar that slow gastric emptying; the form of carbohydrate such as amylopectin A vs. amylopectin B, amylose, fructose, along with other factors. Once in a while, you might consider constructing your own postprandial glucose curve by doing fingersticks every 15 minutes to determine when your peak occurs.)
I reject the insane notion that after-eating blood sugars of less than 200 mg/dl are acceptable, the value accepted widely as the cutoff for health. Blood sugars this high occurring with any regularity ensure cataracts, arthritis, and all the other consequences of cumulative glycation. I therefore aim to keep one-hour after-eating glucoses 100 mg/dl or less. If you start in a pre-diabetic or diabetic range of, say, 120 mg/dl, then I advise people to not allow blood glucose to go any higher. A pre-meal blood glucose of 120 mg/dl would therefore be followed by an after-eating blood glucose of no higher than 120 mg/dl.
No doubt: This is strict. But people who do this:
—Lose weight from visceral fat
—Heighten insulin sensitivity
—Drop blood pressure
—Drop HbA1c and fasting glucose over time
—Reduce small LDL and other carbohydrate-sensitive measures
By the way, if you inadvertently trigger a high blood sugar like I did when I took my kids to the all-you-can-eat Indian buffet , go for a walk, bike, or burn the sugar off with a 30-minute or longer physical effort. Check your blood sugar again and it should be back in desirable range. But then learn from your lesson: Eliminate or reduce portion size of the culprit carbohydrate food.

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Old 11-05-2017, 09:02 PM   #18
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Very helpful! Thank you! I bought a keto mojo meter. I've been checking Both glucose and ketones every morning and every night, and occasionally in between. But I wasn't quite sure how to do that, so your post is helpful. Today I found that I kicked myself out of ketosis eating on a little bit of a slippery slope. Things I would normally consider healthy but not plain meat or low carb veggies. I had a couple different things, so I'm not positive what it was, but it certainly explains why I've been having a hard time losing weight recently. I am tracking what I am eating as well as tracking my numbers, so this should be a good exercise for me. My increased commitment to watching the way I eat has ended up with me losing about 20 lb over the last 9 or 10 weeks, which is pretty amazing. I am now only about 6 or 7 pounds away from my lowest. My plan is to go back to fasting tomorrow. It's not that hard when I'm at work, but tomorrow we are having meetings all day so it will be a little different. I'm hoping I can get through it.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:26 AM   #19
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Hi. I've been lurking and reading for a few days. I may try my first twenty-four hour water fast today, (haven't eaten since 7 last night- so may go to 7 tonight) I am mostly 4:3 JUDD but I just read Fung's first book and it makes so much sense. So I am investigating, experimenting.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:49 AM   #20
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Good morning. I have been short term fasting all weekend but experimenting with fat fasting vs water/tea/coffee. I had a huge mug of hot water with a dash of coffee(coffee isn't my thing), mtc powder and a splash of liquid stevia. For my meal, I tried very fatty foods like bacon and cheese. Also raw nuts and a bit of 100% dark cholcate ( yum really) and a small sip of almond milk. I actually lost this way and sleep is a bit wonky at first. Weird dreams too lol.

Anyway! Something was off. I started getting hungry about 3 hours earlier then normal. I have been reading about the stevia and well, maybe that was it. A huge controversy on line about it. It doesn't raise my glucose but it could be raising my insulin. Which as a result would lower my ketones and cause hunger. So for the week I am skipping my beloved Sweet leaf stevia drops.
I did wake up to a .4 drop so that is good news. I dreamt I drank beer last night which is funny as I don't drink beer. Ever. lol _ also dreamt I was ready to give birth to a girl named Kaitlin! Umm I am almost 54. hahah

Going for a 23:1 today - we shall see.....

betterthanever, oh that's good. I wasn't sure if I was on target. And I looked into the mojo myself. Maybe some day. I too like to track the data. It is most excellent info. Hopefully your work day will prove to be a good mix for your quest today.

quietnite, Excellent. And hey if you don't make 24 at first, that is ok too. And some people do very well with sole water and such. Google that recipe or find it on YouTube. Some do well with a broth but I think that breaks a true water fast myself. I like the La Croix bubble water. I did a 3 week 23:1 and wow, I lost like gang busters. But alas, life. But now I am close to 20 off since August. I was doing the HCG intermittent but I had to get off due to surgery and such and then it dawned on me. That restrictive protocol is fasting. Anyway, the Obesity Code is so awesome for us. I believe way more heathier and a life time plan vs the HCG plan.

I have 4 more pounds to get out of the darned decade my body LOVES. It is a serious set point. I am hoping to get out before Thanskgiving! Come on body! hahah
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:53 PM   #21
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Hi Everyone, I've been in maintenance for 5 months and I've decided to set a new goal of 122...I will be doing OMAD on Monday's, Wednesday's and Friday's and TMAD the rest of the week...I will try to keep my OMAD days low carb and my TMAD days medium carb.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princessbrendag View Post
Hi Everyone, I've been in maintenance for 5 months and I've decided to set a new goal of 122...I will be doing OMAD on Monday's, Wednesday's and Friday's and TMAD the rest of the week...I will try to keep my OMAD days low carb and my TMAD days medium carb.
Great Well done by the way!
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:55 PM   #23
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I was able to fast all day today, and I checked my ketones and I'm back into ketosis. That's a relief. I also maintained my weight loss so far, and it will be interesting to see what the scale does this week. I've now had 140 episode of fasting where I did not lose at all, and lost 2 pounds when I started eating again. And another where I lost two pounds during the fast and another two on the weekend when I was eating. It has been so long since I have had consistent weight loss. I forgot how exciting waking up each morning can be. That, I think, is the tough part of maintenance.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:05 AM   #24
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Aww yes I understand that betterthanever. You miss the action hahah

I am down another smidge. A new low from years ago so YEAH.

I cannot wait to get out of this decade. Slow and steady but determined!

Fasting till true hunger and will do 23:1 maybe or 22:2. We shall see

Do great guys!
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:16 AM   #25
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Well, this is the second time I have trying a 24 hour fast and while I have gone longer without eating than usual and my calories for the down day (I do JUDDD) have come in lower than usual as well, I haven't been able to do it yet. But I'm going to keep trying. The last try actual got the scale to finally move, so I'm experimenting and learning.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:20 AM   #26
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quietnite, yes, its all good. Just keep on trying. For me, I mix it up. This week I am doing pretty good with one meal. Yesterday I did 23:1 - and I am trying to see how high fat works. I have bacon and cheese. But then....lol...a paleo cereal arrived in the mail I ordered. I had a bowl of it with almond milk. It wasn't my cup of tea but I did eat it in my window.

Weight the same today. I was worried! The paleo cereal had monk fruit in it. Not sure how I would do.

Day 4 of zero stevia. I miss it! hahah

Todays plan is once again 23:1 - and high fat Maybe some chicken wings, cheese, bacon. La Croix Waters.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:35 PM   #27
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Something to remember for people who keep fasting - the scale is a poor indicator. I have a pair of pants that I use as a template, I should also get a shirt that I should add. I never wear the pants, cos they stretch, Its only used as a measuring tool.

When you fast, you start to make more and more HGH. HGH is anabolic to bone, organs especially intestines, skin and then muscle.

So your bones get thicker, and you get heavier. The pants fit nice and snug @ 150 and @ 148 they were basically slide on (not unzip and wear). A few months later, they started fitting @ 153, then 158, and now its 160-161. Intestines getting bigger will make it so it cant fit the waist, so even if they start to not fit, I will know its due to intestines getting bigger.

Thanks.
Srinath.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:20 PM   #28
DiamondDeb
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Originally Posted by Stevie Renee View Post
quietnite, yes, its all good. Just keep on trying. For me, I mix it up. This week I am doing pretty good with one meal. Yesterday I did 23:1 - and I am trying to see how high fat works. I have bacon and cheese. But then....lol...a paleo cereal arrived in the mail I ordered. I had a bowl of it with almond milk. It wasn't my cup of tea but I did eat it in my window.

Weight the same today. I was worried! The paleo cereal had monk fruit in it. Not sure how I would do.

Day 4 of zero stevia. I miss it! hahah

Todays plan is once again 23:1 - and high fat Maybe some chicken wings, cheese, bacon. La Croix Waters.
Stevia is good at helping us use insulin - when we consume it with a meal. It is best to avoid consuming it with just a drink and no food - like coffee or tea without a meal. So, it is more important to watch when we consume stevia than to avoid it completely. I have it in a cup of tea with dinner. That is good.

And, I do sometimes have it in my coffee with no food/calories. That isn’t good but I don’t always want black naked coffee.

There are some teas that are slightly sweet naturally but no coffee I know of tastes slightly sweet unless you add something to it.
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Last edited by DiamondDeb; 11-08-2017 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:23 AM   #29
betterthanever
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11/3 175
11/5 173
11/7 170
11/9 170

I've had a good month! On 11/3, I had just finished a 4 day fast. I find the first day extremely easy--no true hunger, only mental cravings. Days 2 or 3 can have some hard moments. I ate VLC 11/3-11/5, and continued to lose. I was amazed that I continued to drop! I have a feeling it will stabilize this week. I fasted M/T; ate VLC yesterday, because I was feeling really fatigued and I had a dance lesson Wed night. Fasting again today, and another dance lesson tonight. Not sure about Friday, because dh and I have a dance function that night, too, and I probably can't handle the spinning around if I'm still fasting. So I may eat Fri-Sun. Probably won't lose this week, but I know I'm still doing good things for my body.

re: Stevia. I'm testing glucose and ketones right now. I fast with tea+stevia. I know it's not optimal, but if I lose doing it, that's what I'm going to do. One day this week I had a diet coke and a powerade zero. My ketones were 4.4 when I went to bed, and 2.2 the next morning! I have to figure that one of those drinks (aspartame or sucralose) affected me. I will have to test them separately.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betterthanever View Post
11/3 175
11/5 173
11/7 170
11/9 170

I've had a good month! On 11/3, I had just finished a 4 day fast. I find the first day extremely easy--no true hunger, only mental cravings. Days 2 or 3 can have some hard moments. I ate VLC 11/3-11/5, and continued to lose. I was amazed that I continued to drop! I have a feeling it will stabilize this week. I fasted M/T; ate VLC yesterday, because I was feeling really fatigued and I had a dance lesson Wed night. Fasting again today, and another dance lesson tonight. Not sure about Friday, because dh and I have a dance function that night, too, and I probably can't handle the spinning around if I'm still fasting. So I may eat Fri-Sun. Probably won't lose this week, but I know I'm still doing good things for my body.

re: Stevia. I'm testing glucose and ketones right now. I fast with tea+stevia. I know it's not optimal, but if I lose doing it, that's what I'm going to do. One day this week I had a diet coke and a powerade zero. My ketones were 4.4 when I went to bed, and 2.2 the next morning! I have to figure that one of those drinks (aspartame or sucralose) affected me. I will have to test them separately.
Those are some nice drops, especially for after a fast.

Could the ketones have been used in the night? As far as I know (and I am no expert at all), we don't store them for quick release like glucose, so would the levels vary over the day with energy consumption? I have tested here and there, but the strips cost too much for me to monitor several times per day to know if that's normal.
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