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Old 06-04-2017, 07:06 AM   #31
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Did all of you hear the part of FT after the discussion of the IF study? The part in which Dr Fung talks about two ethics boards turning down his request to have a researcher come up with a paper ON THE DATA THAT THEY'VE ALREADY COLLECTED at IDM??!!! Agh! I find this so incredibly frustrating.

Standard of care regularly leads to amputations, but reviewing and publishing data from a clinic that already uses fasting for reversing T2D is somehow unethical. ("Because someone might believe the results" was what Dr Fung was given as an explanation. In other words, fasting is so terrible and unethical that they don't want to risk publishing data about how successful it is because someone might then want to try it.)

Makes my head explode.

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Old 06-04-2017, 10:05 AM   #32
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Did all of you hear the part of FT after the discussion of the IF study? The part in which Dr Fung talks about two ethics boards turning down his request to have a researcher come up with a paper ON THE DATA THAT THEY'VE ALREADY COLLECTED at IDM??!!! Agh! I find this so incredibly frustrating.

Standard of care regularly leads to amputations, but reviewing and publishing data from a clinic that already uses fasting for reversing T2D is somehow unethical. ("Because someone might believe the results" was what Dr Fung was given as an explanation. In other words, fasting is so terrible and unethical that they don't want to risk publishing data about how successful it is because someone might then want to try it.)

Makes my head explode.
grrrrr......don't get me started
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:22 AM   #33
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He also said that people in the 'know' had never heard of being turned down by ethics committees with clinical records. Sounds as if Dr. Fung has p.o. some people..... or something he did not share. Very 'unethical' of those committees to have made those decisions. Shows that poor science is at work in many levels of the system. Very uncool.

I enjoyed the podcast and was happy to hear Dr. Fung discuss the tiny study with poor compliance. So much of what we are presented is true. It is important to look for supporting evidence and it is often (all too often) non existent or very flimsy.

Just his morning, one of my headlines was what is the best diet overall. It was the Mediterranean with lots of whole grains and fruits and vegetables. The 'source' was a NYC outpatient nutritionist. Hardly an expert I would listen to .... But it was presented as a fact.
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:52 PM   #34
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I was disheartened to hear that his request were turned down. It made me think of all the people who are following doctors' orders and still have amputations. Yes, it does sound like he p.o.'d some folks (big pharma & ADA).
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:09 PM   #35
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The real issue is people think going without food for a couple of days is akin to torture.

Ethics boards are there to make sure people aren't harmed in studies. If they wouldn't approve it before the fact, they won't approve it after the work has been done.

I did a little research in college and had to prove I wouldn't harm any children by teaching math in a different way before I started my project, even though I was in class every day teaching however I thought was best.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:13 PM   #36
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Lina, yes, I heard that. I can't even think of a comment on that. It is just... I'm speechless.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:15 PM   #37
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I was disheartened to hear that his request were turned down. It made me think of all the people who are following doctors' orders and still have amputations. Yes, it does sound like he p.o.'d some folks (big pharma & ADA).
Which makes me ask... big pharmacy and ada haven't had to prove anything? Because just about everything they do is harming people, actually killing them slowly, in fact.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:58 PM   #38
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Deb- They are being bankrolled by corporations such as McDonalds, Pepsi & Coca-Cola. I was listening to an interview with Dr. Richard Jacoby where he stated if you research the donors of the ADA and the likes, those companies I mentioned are huge donors. Lobbyist in Washington, oh geez the list goes on. It's big money at the end of this trail; we are collateral damage! Oops, scratch that.....those who are not realizing the truth and taking charge of their health are the collateral damage.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:39 PM   #39
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Deb- They are being bankrolled by corporations such as McDonalds, Pepsi & Coca-Cola. I was listening to an interview with Dr. Richard Jacoby where he stated if you research the donors of the ADA and the likes, those companies I mentioned are huge donors. Lobbyist in Washington, oh geez the list goes on. It's big money at the end of this trail; we are collateral damage! Oops, scratch that.....those who are not realizing the truth and taking charge of their health are the collateral damage.
I am so thankful that I have done my own research and come to my own personal conclusions about my health, after having read articles like this:

http://in-training.org/drugged-greed...ducation-10639

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...-best-solution
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:33 PM   #40
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Yes! The money is not in prevention but in the treatment. In every town that has one, hospitals are the largest employers.
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:42 AM   #41
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I have a question - I'm watching the video and Dr Fung makes it sound like everyone who is diagnosed with Diabetes 2 also has a diagnosis of fatty liver. Is that true? Because I don't recall hearing that before...
I know my DW is T2 and has a fatty liver. I was never diagnoses with a fatty liver when I was T2, so

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Did all of you hear the part of FT after the discussion of the IF study? The part in which Dr Fung talks about two ethics boards turning down his request to have a researcher come up with a paper ON THE DATA THAT THEY'VE ALREADY COLLECTED at IDM??!!! Agh! I find this so incredibly frustrating.
I'm on the review committee at my job that examines proposals for research which people would like to conduct using some of the people we serve. We will not even consider a study that has not passed the approval of an IRB, but that isn't necessarily the be all and end all of meaning something is or is not ethical. Like people have said- there can be big money involved and big agendas.

I surprised that the ethics board refused a post chart review. I could more readily understand if it was proposal to carry out a new study, but this work is/ has been carried out already.
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:20 PM   #42
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Which app do you all use to track your fasting?
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:38 PM   #43
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Which app do you all use to track your fasting?
I use something called Fast Habit for my iPhone. Very simple and, for me, effective.
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:43 PM   #44
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I looked at that one but I think I'd prefer one where I could hit start and not have to tell it how long I wanted it to go. Kind of like a stopwatch. I didn't feel like Fast Habit had much user control? But I certainly could be doing something totally wrong too, lol.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:13 PM   #45
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Sandy, I didn't find an app that I liked. And right now it really doesn't seem important to me. I always remember when I start eating but tend to forget to check the time when I start fasting again. Now I am like, "Does it really matter?" lol

So I am thinking I'll keep it easy most of the time and enjoy that - no counting, no weighing, no measuring, no tracking. Getting some of those almost normal behaviors in there...
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:12 PM   #46
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Sandy, i understand what you're saying. I actually use mine to record the fast after the fact and review the graph for my week's progress; I don't use the timed feature.

However, maybe you can just use your phone's clock app? There should be a stop-watch in there.
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:44 PM   #47
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Back from vacay. Didn't practice fasting but it really helped with not overeating and driving long periods without needing snacks and looking forward to get back to it. Not sure I'll jump in or what but marking my spot here.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:42 AM   #48
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Deb, I like your idea. It's been working this long w/o an app so I think I'm just going to ditch that whole idea. Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:03 AM   #49
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I downloaded My Fast and used it for a while, but not so much anymore.
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:44 AM   #50
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I was diagnosed with DM2 in 2008 and probably had it before the actual diagnosis. To my knowledge, I was never tested for fatty liver, but I probably have it since everything else is fatty. LOL I will have to google and see some of the symptoms. Maybe ask for a test if it seems a possibility for me.

I think part of the problem with promoting fasting for diabetes treatment is the fact that most people who become diabetic do so because of constant overeating of the wrong foods. Therefore, they are not good candidates to be receptive to going without food for extended periods of time. It's hard enough to get them to follow a low carb diet let alone fasting. They want to eat their food that they like and expect meds to work it all out for them. If a doctor told them to fast, they would be looking for a new doctor. As someone who is starting to believe Dr Fung's teachings, fasting is still very difficult for me, probably due to eating disorders I've had in the past. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is very, very weak!
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:02 AM   #51
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Carol, Dr. Fung works with a large and diverse population and he has great success with many of them. In fact he says that he his fasting program came after trying to get his patients to eat low carb. It was too confusing and compliance was not good. He decided that fasting was much simpler and patients were/are more compliant.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:06 AM   #52
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Fasting is definitely not easy, especially when you have mental issues with it like I do. If I feel even slightly deprived, I want to pig out. It has taken months and months, but I stuck it out because I feel I have no choice. I won't take pills unless I absolutely have no choice. But I still have days when I want to eat, not so much "bad carby stuff" but just to feel full. Then when I eat too much I feel like crap, so I am getting much better at this.

Yesterday we brought my Mom and went to one of our favorite restaurants for lunch. I had a lovely big salad with bacon and HB egg for protein. Hubs had the meatloaf dinner which looked amazing and then wanted dessert. I remember when I used to eat like that and now it makes me nauseous. LOL
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:27 PM   #53
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Fasting is not for everyone. I will not do it for more than 24 hours as I have binge eating history.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:13 PM   #54
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Well, I have 6 of the 9 symptoms. Guess I'll ask for a test.

Possible symptoms of fatty liver (NASH or NAFLD) include:

Weight excess in the abdominal area
Inability to lose weight
Elevated cholesterol and/or triglyceride levels
Fatigue
Nausea and/or indigestion

Overheating of the body
Excessive sweating
Red itchy eyes
Discomfort over the liver area
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:24 PM   #55
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Well, I have 6 of the 9 symptoms. Guess I'll ask for a test.

Possible symptoms of fatty liver (NASH or NAFLD) include:

Weight excess in the abdominal area
Inability to lose weight
Elevated cholesterol and/or triglyceride levels
Fatigue
Nausea and/or indigestion

Overheating of the body
Excessive sweating
Red itchy eyes
Discomfort over the liver area
Carol,

Usually the ALT is part of the CMP. If you have a patient portal, you can just log in and review previous panel results or request copies to review.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:41 PM   #56
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Carol,

Usually the ALT is part of the CMP. If you have a patient portal, you can just log in and review previous panel results or request copies to review.
That is what I was thinking. It is part of the regular labs doctors have done. No need to make a special request. I'd think anyone with a fatty liver would have found out if they have regular labs done.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:05 AM   #57
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That is what I was thinking. It is part of the regular labs doctors have done. No need to make a special request. I'd think anyone with a fatty liver would have found out if they have regular labs done.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, however, there are no pills to treat fatty liver. So there is no money to be made by telling you that if your enzymes are higher than normal or off the charts that it possibly could be fatty liver or that you took Tylenol a few days before your test. Again, the money is in the treatment, not prevention or cure. Just sayin'!

I'm really beginning to question why doctors are piece-mealing info from blood work and not going line by line with their patients. My doctor goes line by line whenever blood work is done. I don't leave uneducated about what has taken place since the last blood draw.

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Old 06-07-2017, 09:19 AM   #58
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I'm really beginning to question why doctors are piece-mealing info from blood work and not going line by line with their patients. My doctor goes line by line whenever blood work is done. I don't leave uneducated about what has taken place since the last blood draw.
I think it is time. It would take a lot longer to explain each test and answer questions. Most people don't want to know anyway. The regular doctor where DH and I go doesn't even order blood work before a physical so they know what's going on while you are there. We get a letter after the fact with labs and little to no explanation.

I went in once complaining of extreme fatigue, cold intolerance, hair falling out, etc, etc (classic thyroid symptoms). They said they would run "a complete thyroid panel" (after I told them these were classic thyroid symptoms, they didn't seem to have a clue). I got a letter two weeks later with very little thyroid testing and a note on the bottom that said, "These are great!" because my cholesterol and a1c were good. What about the symptoms that brought me in? No chance to have to answer follow-up questions or listen to further complaints without my insurance paying for another visit.

After that I went to a thyroid specialist I have to pay out of pocket for. She has labs done so they are ready when I get there, gives me a copy without having to pester her, and explains every test.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:33 AM   #59
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist, however, there are no pills to treat fatty liver. So there is no money to be made by telling you that if your enzymes are higher than normal or off the charts that it possibly could be fatty liver or that you took Tylenol a few days before your test. Again, the money is in the treatment, not prevention or cure. Just sayin'!

I'm really beginning to question why doctors are piece-mealing info from blood work and not going line by line with their patients. My doctor goes line by line whenever blood work is done. I don't leave uneducated about what has taken place since the last blood draw.
Don't most doctors go over lab results already? If not, why bother with them at all?

The best treatment for fatty liver is a LC diet. I'm sure there are other treatments, too. But, yes, medications can skew labs results, too.

I'd expect someone showing a fatty liver for the first time to have a discussion with their doctor about their current lifestyle and medications they were on at the time of the labs and then have the test done again to see if it is the same or back to normal.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:36 AM   #60
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I think it is time. It would take a lot longer to explain each test and answer questions. Most people don't want to know anyway. The regular doctor where DH and I go doesn't even order blood work before a physical so they know what's going on while you are there. We get a letter after the fact with labs and little to no explanation.

I went in once complaining of extreme fatigue, cold intolerance, hair falling out, etc, etc (classic thyroid symptoms). They said they would run "a complete thyroid panel" (after I told them these were classic thyroid symptoms, they didn't seem to have a clue). I got a letter two weeks later with very little thyroid testing and a note on the bottom that said, "These are great!" because my cholesterol and a1c were good. What about the symptoms that brought me in? No chance to have to answer follow-up questions or listen to further complaints without my insurance paying for another visit.

After that I went to a thyroid specialist I have to pay out of pocket for. She has labs done so they are ready when I get there, gives me a copy without having to pester her, and explains every test.
I have not come across a single doctor who actually knows anything about thyroid who also accepts insurance.
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