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Old 06-07-2017, 09:42 AM   #61
PACarolsue
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There isn't a medication or surgery to treat fatty liver. Instead, your doctor will offer recommendations to reduce your risk factors. These recommendations include:

limiting or avoiding alcoholic beverages
managing your cholesterol
losing weight
controlling your blood sugar


For me, no alcohol involved, cholesterol is good, weight is high and blood sugar is iffy at best.

I have copies of my blood work results from my PCP. I will dig them out and see what it says. I'm assuming it's not listed as "fatty liver" LOL. My doctor discusses anything that isn't within normal levels and give a copy of the blood work upon my request. I usually come home and google the different items to see what they mean.

My cardiologist just calls me and gives me the test results over the phone. I believe they now have a portal, which would also include my PCP who is in the same medical group. I will ask about this at my appointment on Friday.

I get more answers from forums, such as this thread, and I appreciate the information!! Very helpful to me.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:12 AM   #62
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Fatty liver disease and non alcoholic liver disease are pretty much inextinguishable from each other. It is clear that children will have NAFLD is the exception. Diagnosis is not from blood work but from either imaging (ultra sound) or biopsy. Here is a little blurb about this issue...

Quote:
Liver biopsy remains the gold standard tool to diagnose and stage NAFLD. However, it comes with the risk of complications ranging from simple pain to life-threatening bleeding. It is also associated with sampling error. For these reasons, a variety of noninvasive radiological markers, including ultrasound, computed tomography, magnetic resonance spectroscopy, and the controlled attenuation parameter using transient elastography and Xenon-133 scan have been proposed to increase our ability to diagnose NAFLD, hence avoiding liver biopsy.
I agree that a ketogenic diet can go a long way to reversing it. If only people would make the connection.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:23 AM   #63
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I found this which is likely a better statement than the one I made above because it does say the blood tests can indicate further investigation.

Quote:
Diagnosis

By Mayo Clinic Staff Print
Because nonalcoholic fatty liver disease causes no symptoms in most cases, it frequently comes to medical attention when tests done for other reasons point to a liver problem. This can happen if your liver looks unusual on ultrasound or if you have an abnormal liver enzyme test.

Tests done to pinpoint the diagnosis and determine disease severity include:

Blood tests

Complete blood count
Liver enzyme and liver function tests
Tests for chronic viral hepatitis (hepatitis A, hepatitis C and others)
Celiac disease screening test
Fasting blood sugar
Hemoglobin A1C, which shows how stable your blood sugar is
Lipid profile, which measures blood fats, such as cholesterol and triglycerides
Imaging procedures

Imaging procedures used to diagnose nonalcoholic fatty liver disease include:

Plain ultrasound, which is often the initial test when liver disease is suspected.
Computerized tomography (CT) scanning or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of the abdomen. These techniques lack the ability to distinguish nonalcoholic steatohepatitis from nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, but still may be used.
Transient elastography, an enhanced form of ultrasound that measures the stiffness of your liver. Liver stiffness indicates fibrosis or scarring.
Magnetic resonance elastography, which combines magnetic resonance imaging with patterns formed by sound waves bouncing off the liver to create a visual map showing gradients of stiffness throughout the liver reflecting fibrosis or scarring.
Liver tissue examination

If other tests are inconclusive, your doctor may recommend a procedure to remove a sample of tissue from your liver (liver biopsy). The tissue sample is examined in a laboratory to look for signs of inflammation and scarring. A liver biopsy may be painful in some patients, and it does have small risks that your doctor will review with you in detail. This procedure is performed by a needle insertion through the abdominal wall and into the liver.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:57 PM   #64
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I think it is time. It would take a lot longer to explain each test and answer questions. Most people don't want to know anyway.
That's part of the care they provide and what they get paid for. They have time to prescribe patients medications, why not the time to answer a few questions? I have not had that experience of not enough time to consult with me.

If people don't want to know, like Dr. Fung said about his patients when he tell them what to do and they choose not to, "that is on them, it's their life". Case in point: Some doctors are prescribing statins to people who don't need them based on the results of an LDL but unless that patient insist on a particle test, there is a good chance the doctor wins the argument that statins is best. I have heard where doctors have denied individuals particle tests in order to prove they really need statins. The onus is on the patient to take charge of their health.

Clarification: Doctors can look at Trig & HDL to tell if particle size is A or B. If that is the doctor's method of assurance for prescribing statins, fine, but educate the patient on it by explaining how they determined A or B by reviewing the Trig & HDL numbers. For patients sake of knowing if the doctor does not do that, requesting an particle test before agreeing to statins is what I want to be clear about.

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Old 06-07-2017, 01:16 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Fatty liver disease and non alcoholic liver disease are pretty much inextinguishable from each other. It is clear that children will have NAFLD is the exception. Diagnosis is not from blood work but from either imaging (ultra sound) or biopsy. Here is a little blurb about this issue...
DW needed an abdominal CT when she got very sick (turned out to be an interaction between her statin and diabetic medication as well as a reaction to one of the diabetic meds). The abdominal CT showed a fatty liver, but nothing was done about it and she did not receive any feedback other than "most overweight people have a fatty liver."
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:40 PM   #66
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I checked my bloodwork. My ALT is right in the middle of the normal range, and my AST is in the low normal range. So that proves that not all diabetics have a fatty liver. I don't have the bloodwork from when I was diagnosed in 2008. This bloodwork is more recent, after I had changed my diet, but not really lost any weight.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:30 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by PACarolsue View Post
I checked my bloodwork. My ALT is right in the middle of the normal range, and my AST is in the low normal range. So that proves that not all diabetics have a fatty liver. I don't have the bloodwork from when I was diagnosed in 2008. This bloodwork is more recent, after I had changed my diet, but not really lost any weight.
That's great news, Carol! Mine is in the middle normal range as well but I am not diabetic or prediabetic. If fatty liver is a precursor to insulin resistance as Dr. Fung says, perhaps you could attempt to send him a copy of your lab work and see what he has to say, yeah? Hmmm!!!!

FYI: Dr. Fung is not the only one saying this but I have listened to Dr. Hyman say this as well in a video recorded back in 2016.

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Old 06-07-2017, 06:15 PM   #68
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Following my usual easy and mindless 16 hours right now. I wish 24+ was that easy for me, but I can't manage without MAJOR effort and I've got too much else going on in my brain right now. But I'm still plugging away and reading!
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:34 AM   #69
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Marsha, coming back from vacation I think it's normal to take a little longer to get back to the longer fasts. Just extend them a little longer each time and you will soon be back to 24 hours!
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:46 AM   #70
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I feel like I have hijacked this fasting thread and I didn't mean to, but this is just too intriguing to me. Here are some excerpts from an article from Diabetes Forecast.

Eighty percent of people with diabetes have fat in the liver, says Kenneth Cusi, MD, FACP, FACE, an endocrinologist at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

80%, not 100%.


Even [patients'] liver enzymes can be normal.

So, my normal levels do not mean I don't have fatty liver disease.


Was the experiment a failure? Certainly not, says Cusi: "Our hypothesis was wrong, but we learned that the main factor is obesity. That's important, because we can do something about it," Cusi says.

The key to reversing the course of fatty liver disease is weight loss. "Reduce carbohydrates, and that reduces fat in the liver very quickly," Cusi says.


Maybe my switch to low carb eating made a difference, even though I am still in the obese category. I know that losing body fat will help with a lot of my medical issues.
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:33 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by PACarolsue View Post
I feel like I have hijacked this fasting thread and I didn't mean to, but this is just too intriguing to me. Here are some excerpts from an article from Diabetes Forecast.

Eighty percent of people with diabetes have fat in the liver, says Kenneth Cusi, MD, FACP, FACE, an endocrinologist at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

80%, not 100%.


Even [patients'] liver enzymes can be normal.

So, my normal levels do not mean I don't have fatty liver disease.


Was the experiment a failure? Certainly not, says Cusi: "Our hypothesis was wrong, but we learned that the main factor is obesity. That's important, because we can do something about it," Cusi says.

The key to reversing the course of fatty liver disease is weight loss. "Reduce carbohydrates, and that reduces fat in the liver very quickly," Cusi says.


Maybe my switch to low carb eating made a difference, even though I am still in the obese category. I know that losing body fat will help with a lot of my medical issues.
Keep the info coming, Carol. Good insight. Yes, the reduction of carbs decreases many abnormalities we have but fasting seems to be the golden egg in reducing and keeping those abnormalities at bay.
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:21 AM   #72
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I feel like I have hijacked this fasting thread and I didn't mean to, but this is just too intriguing to me. Here are some excerpts from an article from Diabetes Forecast.
Oh, no! It's very good info. I am not overwhelmed with worry about developing Type II diabetes personally, but I think it's obvious that we should all be more informed than we've been. The role of insulin to all of us has been, I think, misunderstood and/or ignored when we didn't think that diabetes per se was an issue we needed to be concerned with. So reading about diabetic issues in particular is of keen interest to me.
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:37 AM   #73
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Carol, I love the subject and info!!!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:26 PM   #74
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Carol, I don't think it is a hijack at all - it is all related info and very helpful.
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Old 06-08-2017, 03:44 PM   #75
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Good, I'm glad all were interested in the info. Next time I go to my PCP I will ask him about the fatty liver even though my enzymes look good.

Marsha, all of you here are making changes that improve your health. The reason I developed diabetes is because at some point, I just let it all go. I am very very sorry I did that. If I had kept up what I was doing in my 30s and 40s I would not be in this position.

Rosebud, I am not yet at the point mentally to start doing fasting longer than 16:8. Maybe I will extend it out a little further now and then to stick my toes in the water!
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:19 PM   #76
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Rosebud, I am not yet at the point mentally to start doing fasting longer than 16:8. Maybe I will extend it out a little further now and then to stick my toes in the water!
Carol - let it come naturally. I have not gone past 24 hours yet but I will let the longer fasts happen naturally. The benefits are great past the 12th hour after your last meal so you have 4 hours a day which comes to 28 hours a week of health benefits via fasting.

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Old 06-09-2017, 07:26 PM   #77
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Hi guys! Happy June! Just broke a 4 day fast. That cheeseburger and spinach sautéed in garlic and butter was sure delicious! Looking forward to feasting this weekend and giving my body some good nutrition before I fast again next week!
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:07 PM   #78
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Is it true that the podcast with J.M. called fasting talk with jason fung has been cancelled. I hear they had a falling out.....................

From Megan on f.b...

Quote:
*Official Statement*
Jason Fung and I will continue to podcast about fasting. We will not be using FastingTalk as our platform and we're going to shake things up a bit. We're going to have more of our IDM team join in and more patients on the show.
We're still working on the layout of the new podcast and it will launch later this summer under a different name. Jimmy walked away from us on Friday so we haven't had much time to formulate a new plan, but it is in the works. I know he's been posting (unauthorized) about our plans to continue/discontinue FastingTalk and launching a new podcast, so we just want to clarify.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:27 PM   #79
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Is it true that the podcast with J.M. called fasting talk with jason fung has been cancelled. I hear they had a falling out.....................

From Megan on f.b...
It sounds like it. You can read more about it on Jimmy's Facebook page. (Summary: There were a number of reviews complaining about Jimmy's style. IDM asked him if he would modify his style in response. He did not want to continue if he couldn't keep his trademark style.)
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:53 PM   #80
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That's too bad about the podcast. Not sure what the complaints were but mine would have been about someone other than Jimmy. Perhaps this way will end up better in the long run. We won't lose Jimmy, that is for sure.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:22 PM   #81
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Ya, I guess you have to have a pretty thick skin in order to be successful in podcasting. I thought Megan was polite and responsive to J.M.'s lame jokes but I personally, did not like his way of treating her.

She is a professional woman with a scientific background and most importantly, very strong clinical history. He would interrupt and mock her and I didn't hear him do that to Dr. Fung. I feel sure it was unintentional but that doesn't make it less annoying.

I am glad there are lots of podcasts to choose from these days. And I will also say that J.M. should be acknowledged for all the information he has brought forth when there was no one else. I wish him well.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:54 PM   #82
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Last week after 7 careful weeks of one or two meals a day and working out -- with an 8 hr or less window of eating, I still was not down a pound. I waited, I marked it up to cortisol production from lifting 3 days a week and 3 short cardio session a week. I thought, just be patient, it will all happen at once. I felt sure I was about to turn a corner and week after week, I didn’t. I was losing inches and certainly my clothes were fitting better but I was disgusted. Even though the scales lie (I am well aware) and I was gaining muscle ( I should look like Arnold!) …..it didn’t account for what was happening. My weekday eating was almost perfect, but on the weekends, even remaining keto, I would tend to graze (Keto of course).

Last Sunday, I binged. Cookies, candy bars, a low carb pizza (haha – that one is funny if you would have seen the other stuff I was eating all day). When I woke up Monday, I was full of regret and wanted to do a 24 hour fast to get the stuff out of my system. I was mad at my body for not cooperating. Long story short, I fasted from Sunday evening until Friday afternoon. Wow. Not the easiest thing I have ever done. I was determined to fast until my blood sugar was below 83. It his 76 on Friday afternoon and I was feeling it was time to stop. I dropped 13 lbs. I dropped a size in my clothes. Over the weekend I gained 4 lbs back, I was now waiting to see where I would end up. Today, after the 4 lb gain and one meal a day on Saturday and Sunday - the scale dropped 1.5 lbs. and my blood sugar was 92 this morning. I had a delicious keto dinner last night w/ baby back ribs (dry rub), kale salad w/ blueberry balsamic, goat cheese, walnuts, bacon, and blueberries. I nibbled on bacon while fixing dinner. I ate freely and I am sure too much protein. I am amazed. There is a shift in my body that I can’t explain – I feel differently. I think b/c of the working out my body was primed to let go of some weight (once the insulin level dropped and it could)!

I did not think longer fast were necessary for me. I was wrong. I have been overweight since childhood. I read once single sentence in the Fung Fasting series that made a difference to me……….it was about the longer you have been overweight, the more insulin resistant you are. About 10 years ago I was borderline diabetic. I went low carb, Atkins. I then cut protein after Keto Clarity. I could keep everything under control (not becoming a diabetic), but have always stayed a high risk, metabolically resistant, nearly borderline diabetic with high blood pressure.

My message is: I didn’t think a longer fast was needed for me (exactly what Dr. Fung said – if it is not working try a longer fast – I guess I am hard headed). It was my piece of the puzzle. I am excited to see what comes next. I hope this helps someone find their piece of the puzzle!

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Old 06-12-2017, 03:07 PM   #83
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Cathy,

I noticed the mocking also and I was not comfortable with it. He would say things like "Super Freak" and play the song and I'm sitting there going WTH? However, he never did it to Dr. Fung.
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #84
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I don't care for JM's style either- on any of his podcasts really. I stopped listening to any of the Fasting Talks that Dr. Fung wasn't on too.
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:36 PM   #85
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I don't care for JM's style either- on any of his podcasts really. I stopped listening to any of the Fasting Talks that Dr. Fung wasn't on too.
I only listened to a couple that Megan was on & a couple that Dr. F was on. I was so disappointed in the ones I did listen to that I didn't want to waste more of my time.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:08 AM   #86
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It appears Jimmy deleted his posts regarding the Fung/Ramos decision to cancel the podcast. Maybe after a good night's sleep he decided to be professional about it and take the high road as his posts seemed bitter and petty.
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:30 PM   #87
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Start Date: Re-start - Jan 8 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddCatt View Post
I dropped 13 lbs. I dropped a size in my clothes. Over the weekend I gained 4 lbs back, I was now waiting to see where I would end up. Today, after the 4 lb gain and one meal a day on Saturday and Sunday - the scale dropped 1.5 lbs. and my blood sugar was 92 this morning. I had a delicious keto dinner last night w/ baby back ribs (dry rub), kale salad w/ blueberry balsamic, goat cheese, walnuts, bacon, and blueberries. I nibbled on bacon while fixing dinner. I ate freely and I am sure too much protein. I am amazed. There is a shift in my body that I can’t explain – I feel differently. I think b/c of the working out my body was primed to let go of some weight (once the insulin level dropped and it could)!

I did not think longer fast were necessary for me. I was wrong.
Wow, Maddcatt - this is absolutely fabulous! What a great thing to learn - both the need to lower insulin and the need to fast longer.

Nothing can stop you now!
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Start: 223.2
1st goal - end of March - Onederland: Done - Nov 15

My journal - Fitter Fifties
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:08 AM   #88
Carly
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 12,041
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Stats: 199/126.8/125 5'1" 41yrs Size 20/4P
WOE: JUDDD- maintaining since 2/2013
Start Date: 2/21/12- Low carb (199lbs) 3/28/12 JUDDD (189lbs)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDeb View Post
I only listened to a couple that Megan was on & a couple that Dr. F was on. I was so disappointed in the ones I did listen to that I didn't want to waste more of my time.
I can't agree more. I was very underwhelmed by the podcast. I didn't care for J.M. one bit. This podcast was my first exposure to all 3 of them.
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JUDDD changed my life. It transformed my health, gave me freedom and restored my confidence.

JUDDD is very simple, very livable and very flexible. JUDDD allows weight loss and life to happen simultaneously.

See my before and after pictures
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/we...ore-after.html
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:07 AM   #89
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 13,720
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WOE: N.K.=vlc/moderate protein/high fat
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
I really like 2 keto dudes. I heard a tip that came from Megan Ramos through one of the dudes. It was that placing amount of good quality salt on your tongue and allowing it to dissolve is a very helpful thing to do while fasting.

I have been having trouble just doing an OMAD and tried this (1/4 tsp.) the other day. It was surprisingly effective. It was spoken in terms of longer fasts but I thought it worth a try and am glad I did. I am thinking I need a portable small container to carry some salt with me.
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Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:49 PM   #90
PACarolsue
Major LCF Poster!
 
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Steeler Country
Posts: 2,153
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Stats: 217/200/? 5'2"
WOE: Whatever Works
Start Date: Tomorrow
Cathy, back when I was still working, I bought a very small S&P shaker to carry in my purse. I got it in the camping section of a major sporting goods store.
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"The first step to solving a problem is to admit that one exists."
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